Training Program/Schedule?

[DPB]

Total Newbie,

This is an excellent question, but you need to provide some more specifics. Precisely what do you mean by "proficient."

Here's where I'm going with this: you might mean proficient as in "I want to be able to hit targets in a reasonable time at a reasonable range for a given firearm," or "I want to hunt all of the available seasons with the appropriate firearms," or you might mean "I want to learn to gunfight."

Make no mistake, if you go to a Jeff Gonzales class, it's a gunfighting class. Also, as was previously mentioned, it is not a beginner class. More on that later.

The other thing is, if you mean the latter (and not in conjuction with attendance of one of Uncle Sam's trade schools), you are talking about DEFENSIVE weapons training. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, however, you still need to develop your basic skills to a reasonable level. In other words, you need some technical capabilities to support defensive tactics training.

Instruction is good, but remember that what an instructor (or anyone on an internet board) tells you is not the Holy Gospel. Almost everyone knows something worth learning, but no one has the exclusive rights to THE answer. Also, you need to find classes that are appropriate to your current level of training. Classes are way too expensive to blow your money on when the subject matter is below or more than an little bit above your level of expertise. A Gonzales or similar two day class will typically cost $300-$500 or more for the instruction, plus ammo, travel, lodging, etc.

Before I go into some specific recommendations, I would also suggest you reduce the "proficient on all weapons" goal. Unless you have unlimited time, funds, and range access, this is pretty much out of the question. The best shooters in the world are truly "proficient" with maybe half a dozen different weapons. Due to logistical considerations (time/money), most of us find a niche we like and are somewhat specialized in our shooting interest. Example, go to a 3 Gun or Cowboy match, and track how many competitors are truly proficient with all three guns. It won't be many.

As for specifics in pistol shooting, I'm a big fan of using guns that have .22 conversion slides available. You will need to learn the proper fundamentals of slow, aimed fire, work through firing from various start positions, work on multiple shots on single targets and multiple targets, and, eventually, shooting while moving.

My standard basic pistol drill is a 3 inch dot at 7 yards. Start position is with the pistol against your chest, like the position where your hands come together after you draw. Extend, acquire the sights, and hit the dot. When you can do that consistently, put a 5 inch dot on the target and start from the holster. When you can do that in 1.5 seconds consistently, you're ready to move on.

I'm not a shotgun guy, so I don't have any shotgun advice. I'm the guy at the 3 Gun match who's good with his rifle and pistol and tries to survive the shotgun stages.

One more thing. In addition to training, competition is a great way to learn stuff. Make sure your safe, and spend a lot of time watching the other shooters. For pistol, USPSA is great, but IDPA is a bit easier to start with, and requires less support equipment. One of the shotgunners will have to tell you where to start with a shotgun. For rifle, 3 Gun is great, but tough on beginners and requires a lot of stuff. Also, it's frequently hard to find competitions. I'm sure there are some High Power or Service Rifle guys here that can give you some help too.

There is a lot of good information on the replies to this thread (well, at least before my post.) You are being pointed in the right direction.

doug

[dgg9]

Also, you need to find classes that are appropriate to your current level of training. Classes are way too expensive to blow your money on when the subject matter is below or more than an little bit above your level of expertise. A Gonzales or similar two day class will typically cost $300-$500 or more for the instruction, plus ammo, travel, lodging, etc.

Agreed...that's why I would advocate the sequence of: basic safety class; ~5 range sessions; then a series of the local half or one day classes, with ~5 range sessions between them; then after perhaps a year of this, a full weekend class.

As for the weekend classes, yes travel and lodging are a component to the price, so there too, I would strip-mine every possible class you could drive to first. For example, last May, Jeff Gonzales's CP1 was at the NG Armory in DE, only 45 minutes away from Philly. John Farnam has classes at Classic Pistol, minutes north of Philly.

An interesting twist on this are the classes held at Hollidaysburg: 4 hr drive from Philly, but motels there are like $25 a night (literally -- no exaggeration), thus keeping costs down.

[dgg9]

When you can do that in 1.5 seconds consistently, you're ready to move on.

By the way, Total Newbie has an invaluable resource at the SPAG range: those timed targets (set a timer and the target flips from sideways to face you, then sideways again, thus forcing a time limit) are not common at all!

They will become a training staple, a little later on.

[DPB]

dgg9,

Who's teaching the classes at Hollidaysburg?

The reason I ask, I'm from Hollidaysburg, my parents still live there, I'm a member at that range, and I usually go back there when I'm not roaming the earth like Kane in Kung Fu.

I know they had Blackwater in a couple of years ago, but havn't heard of any lately. I'll be back there in December, I'll have to research this. I'd like to attend, or even teach if they're doing something I can teach. If I'm around, I'm not a big name but I've got some pretty good and varied experience, and I'm cheap. (I'm usually just easy, but when it comes to teaching gun skills I'm generally cheap as well.)

I can't speak about $25 hotel rooms, but I wouldn't doubt it. If any of you guys come to classes there, let me know. I'm not in the area very much, but when I am I'm always up for some shooting

[dgg9]

Who's teaching the classes at Hollidaysburg?

I'm pretty sure Jeff Gonzales has been there, (almost exactly a year ago?). By "there" I mean (and I assume you mean) the Hollidaysburg Sportsmen's Club, an excellent shooting facility. Their schedule is online:

http://www.hollidaysburgsportsmensclub.com/

This group gets there about once a year:

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/

They're a pretty squared away bunch. Look on their site at the schedule and you'll see that in May 07 they're bringing their Fighting Rifle (great course, which I took) and Advanced Fighting Rifle, all in a 4 day consecutive block -- another good thing they do. Having a 4 day block helps minimize the fixed overhead of driving, and the ridiculously cheap motels make the extra days financially painless.

They were there this year (I think?) for (IIRC) Force on Force (I missed that one), and they were there last year for a 5 day block of pistol, rifle, shotgun classes (I made that one).

[DPB]

Yes, that's the "there I was referring to." I would gladly pay for Jeff Gonzales. I've been a member there for years, but I don't know where the "fishing pond" is.

I'm sure Tactical Response has some good classes, and most of their instructors have a good reputation. Unfortunatley, one of their senior guys is seriously persona non grata in the industry that I work in, so they won't be getting any of my cash. I don't want to elaborate in an open forum.

Thanks for the info.

doug

[dgg9]

Splitting the difference driving-wise is Harrisburg -- a lot of good trainers come there. The Insights crew, Gonzales, Tom Givens, probably several more I'm forgetting.

[27hand]

I realize we do not have a training forum on this site, but it might not be a bad idea to have training classes with dates and costs listed somewhere that anyone interested could quickly see if something strikes their fancy.

Just an idea.

27hand

[TotalNewbie]

Thanks DPB, dgg9. I just wanted to tell you how much I really appreciate your comments!

[dgg9]

btw the offer holds to meet a SPAG sometime ...we can offer up some drills for you to take away.