Lackawanna County Knife Laws?

[Avi90]

I am well aware of the state laws regarding knives but am curious how cities like Scranton(since I live there.) deal with them. I plan on buying a Benchmade 710 for my new EDC knife but the blade length is 3.9". Would that cause any problems in Scranton or neighboring areas within the county. What about a knife like the 585 Barrage which is an assisted opening 3.6"? ( I keep hearing Scranton has a 3.5" limit for assisted opening knives. Is that true?)

Thanks for any help/information you can provide.

[Bigrepp61]

ill be corrected here but i thought any assisted opening knives were illegal in pa altogether... i know there isnt a lenght issue at all in pa... you could carry a samurai sword if you wanted... again thats what i believe was told to me on here a while back.... id suggest doing a search.... lots of info on here if ya look...

[Avi90]

I'm pretty sure assisted openers are legal. I see them in every walmart, kmart and Sporting goods store.

The reason I ask about size is I had read (in another thread on here.) that cities/counties can have their own ordinances. So you may be able to carry a samurai sword in Scranton but a 3 inch folder will get you fined in Dickson City.

Perhaps I misunderstood though. I will continue the search in the mean time.

[zackattack784]

ill be corrected here but i thought any assisted opening knives were illegal in pa altogether... i know there isnt a lenght issue at all in pa... you could carry a samurai sword if you wanted... again thats what i believe was told to me on here a while back.... id suggest doing a search.... lots of info on here if ya look...

AFAIK assisted opening knives are legal. Why else would they sell them at walmart? You are correct there is no state law that sets restrictions on knife length. However, there is no preemption for knives so local municipalities can regulate them as much as they want. For example, I know Philly has some pretty strict knife laws.

OP, sorry, but I don't know anything about Lackawanna county laws.

[unloved]

Assisted openers are legal in PA, however, the fact that an item is commonly sold is not a reliable indicator of that item's legality. As zackattack784 stated, local governments are free to restrict carry of knives, so check your local laws.

[jahwarrior72]

ill be corrected here but i thought any assisted opening knives were illegal in pa altogether... i know there isnt a lenght issue at all in pa... you could carry a samurai sword if you wanted... again thats what i believe was told to me on here a while back.... id suggest doing a search.... lots of info on here if ya look...

you were right about one thing; you'll be corrected.

length is definitely an issue, and it varies depending on where you are. what might be cool in Scranton might not be in Altoona. as far as i know, knives of any kind are illegal to carry in Philly, unless you can prive they're for your job.

and, i'm pretty sure a katana is not legal to carry in most of PA, otherwise, we'd have dozens of mall samurai and Lowlanders walking around, challenging each other to sword ballet.

i know i would.

[JCWohlschlag]

I am well aware of the state laws regarding knives but am curious how cities like Scranton(since I live there.) deal with them. I plan on buying a Benchmade 710 for my new EDC knife but the blade length is 3.9". Would that cause any problems in Scranton or neighboring areas within the county. What about a knife like the 585 Barrage which is an assisted opening 3.6"? ( I keep hearing Scranton has a 3.5" limit for assisted opening knives. Is that true?)

Thanks for any help/information you can provide.

A listing of Scranton’s ordinances can be found at http://www.ecode360.com/?custId=SC1588. The section that would have any restrictions on knives, if there actually were any (unless you count shurikens, I guess), would be here. I could find no restrictions on knives through the search for “knife”, “blade”, or “cut”.

Lackawanna County, unfortunately, does not publish their ordinances anywhere I have been able to find (like some other Pennsylvania municipalities). You will probably have to call the county and ask.

ill be corrected here but i thought any assisted opening knives were illegal in pa altogether...

Actually, although not absolute and concrete, the consensus seems to point the other direction.

Well how about my Kershaw it has assisted opening is that leagal? Bought it at Dick's sporting goods.

What am I, the answer guy?

I don't know exactly how your knife works, so I couldn't say. An easy test is this: Can you push a button or flip a switch that causes the blade to expose with no further action by you? If yes, then it's a prohibited weapon.

If you have a spring that "assists" you in getting the blade out faster as you push a lever to move the blade, then you're probably fine.

Keep in mind the following: The knives you're talking about are incredibly common. Most people I know who carry or regularly use knives own one. Every police officer I know owns one. And 99% of them would swear that they're legal.

Does that make it legal if a judge says you're just enough on the ugly side of the line for it to matter? Nope. You're SOL, and spending money on an appeal.

i know there isnt a lenght issue at all in pa... you could carry a samurai sword if you wanted...

No, you couldn’t. While it is true that there is no state level length restriction on knives, that does not mean that you can walk down the street with a sword.

I was wondering about carrying a concealed sword (shirasaya - like the cane sword used in the Zatoichi movies) and how legal this would be in the city of Pittsburgh and the burrough of Brentwood (i walk in these two areas mainly)?

A sword is not a knife. Regular knives are lawful to carry, concealed even, because they are tools, i.e., they have a “common lawful purpose”. Swords do not, and if you disagree, I sincerely believe you would also be disagreeing with pretty much any court in Pennsylvania. A sword is almost definitely classified as a prohibited offensive weapon, i.e., an “implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose”, as per 18 Pa.C.S. § 908.

And before you or someone else posit the canard that self-defense is a common lawful purpose in this case, it is not. Just because self-defense is a conceivable lawful purpose for a sword, the law requires a common lawful purpose. [Commonwealth v. Lawson, 2009, Superior Court: “‘While some conceivable lawful use could be found for almost every object otherwise proscribed by Section 908, the statute does not prohibit only items with no conceivable lawful purpose, but, more broadly, items with no common lawful purpose.’ Commonwealth v. Hitchon, 549 A.2d 943, 947 (Pa. Super. 1988) (emphasis in original)”] Also, self-defense is not a valid common lawful purpose for the measurement of a weapon’s prohibition under § 908. [Commonwealth v. Lawson, 2009, Superior Court: “Lawson also argues that self-defense is his common lawful purpose for carrying the knife. Under the definition suggested by Lawson, any weapon could be used for self-defense, and the purpose of the statute would be nullified.”]

Layman conclusion: Don’t carry around a sword, concealed or not. But, as I am a layman, my opinion may be crap. However, an attorney has pretty much paraphrased similar considerations regarding expanding batons, so take his opinion into deliberation as well.

I doubt that a baseball bat would fall under 908, because although it has the potential to kill (and has been used that way countless times), it has an obvious common lawful purpose. A baton, on the other hand, that's designed to whack people upside the head or break elbows and kneecaps, is a harder case, since it's arguably an "other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose." Sure, self defense is lawful, but then EVERY weapon that could be used to hurt someone, but isn't specifically listed by name, would be excluded from 908.

[zackattack784]

This is the PA state law. I don't know where to find local laws. Interpret this as you please. As you can see, there is no length requirement.

Title 18 § 908. Prohibited offensive weapons.
(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except
as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses
any offensive weapon.

(c) Definition.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall
have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Offensive weapons."
Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches,
firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge,
any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument,
the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring
mechanism, or otherwise, or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily
injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

I guess katana would fall under the "no lawful purpose" clause?

[jahwarrior72]

This is the PA state law. I don't know where to find local laws. Interpret this as you please. As you can see, there is no length requirement.
I guess katana would fall under the "no lawful purpose" clause?

you're absolutely right, there are no state laws mentioning length requirements. the problem is the lack of preemption; so cities and boruoghs may very well have length restrictions, that are perfectly legal. which is, by the way, very irritating, especially when you have a pretty nice collection of knives you can't do shit with.

[zackattack784]

Assisted openers are legal in PA, however, the fact that an item is commonly sold is not a reliable indicator of that item's legality. As zackattack784 stated, local governments are free to restrict carry of knives, so check your local laws.

Actually, if you look at state law it is a good indicator that a knife is legal at the state level.

18 Pa.C.S. § 908: Prohibited offensive weapons
(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any offensive weapon.

So the fact Walmart sells assisted openers is a good indicator the knives are legal at the state level. But as we've already pointed out, local governments can still restrict knife carry so that may be a moot point for you Avi.