Gun Carriers Walk into Ponderosa Steakhouse

[max384]

I voted no... but I would like to have seen the video first to see how they interacted with the police. Like it or not, when OCing, and especially when the police are called, they are the center of attention at that point. A lot of tact and politeness is called for because what happens leaves an impression on those that witness the interaction. Of course, I'm not implying they should let others trample their rights.

I also think the rifle was a bit much IMHO. If they organized this with the owner prior to the meeting, they should have mentioned they were going to bring a rifle inside his restaurant out of courtesy.

Where was the rifle placed at while its owner was busy eating? Was it loaded? What reason is there to carry a rifle into a Ponderosa? Im all for rights. But doing something just because you can is no reason to do anything. Personally I could care less if people OC....but the vast majority of people who post here about it seem to do it just for the shock value. Just to see other peoples reactions. IMO this is wrong and shows something lacking from that persons mentality. Do you really need attention that badly? I CC everywhere I go and go thru a reasonable amount of effort to make sure it stays that way.

I will liken it to owning a large constrictor. Yes I can go out with a 8 foot python around my neck. It is my right to do so. Other people have the right to walk down the street and NOT be subjected to an 8 foot long snake at eye level. If I carry that snake around just because I enjoy the look of discomfort on peoples faces. Or just to know IM stirring up conversations, then I am violating someone elses right not to see that.

Some people dont want to see an assault rifle at dinner. A dinner they are paying for as well. You are stepping on that persons rights, to express yours just because you want to. That is not what I want my country to become. Just like I wouldnt want to see two guys making out when Im trying to eat.

legal or not, what in your mind would posses you to take a rifle into a chain restaraunt? Flame away, but I think alot of the people who OC shouldnt. And when I see half a wanna be thug, or fake paramilitary wanna bes, knowing I could disarm them with little to no effort because they have no real training all I can think is you are hurting the cause of gun ownership in this country.

How is expressing your rights stepping on others' rights? I think the rifle should have been left at home as well, but I won't accuse him of stepping on others' rights for doing so.

Since when is 'because I can' or 'because I want to' not a valid reason to express one's rights?

wow! i'm impressed! it only took until post #15 for someone to say people who OC are only looking for attention and are irresponsible, CC has the tactical advantage, blahblahblah.....what a bunch of shit. congratulations, you win the "Lamest Post of this Thread" award.

Now now Jah.

[newskate9]

To me it's about context. I applaud the meeting, and the side-arms. To me, the rifle was over the top and asking for "input". Carrying a rifle in that environment, to me, was out of context - way out, actually.

The pic of the Israeli soldiers chicks - well, that was in context. That establishment probably sees them all the time, and so do citizens. Now if they showed up in burqas and carrying bomb-vests, that might cause a stir - even if they were fake bombs used for training.

I get OC and have no problem with it. I aspire to it some day. But I also get shooting oneself in the foot to prove that, yes, it will in fact bleed. Can't you just take my word for it?

[BlueGunGuy]

Attachment 14644
Yeah that's some scary shit right there.

seriously, that's the best response you can come up with? Replace those women in uniform with a handfull of hillbillies at ponderosa, with questionable firearms safety skills, and a couple pitchers of beer. While that may sound like a family reunion to you, I can't imagine that i'd enjoy a relaxing dinner in that environment. Again, what is the point? It's clearly just attention-seeking behaviour.

If you honestly think you (or anyone) needs an AK47 on you during dinner, might i suggest you take your paranoid self to a more remote location where you won't feel so jumpy and insecure? Also, be sure to put on your shiny hat. As for me, a concealed .45 is plenty of protection for dinner at Ponderosa, or even somewhere nicer that actually serves food.

[max384]

Just let me say that I have never O/C'd and may never start but I fully support those that do. The quote at the end from the leo makes me think it was positive:

But LPD say no one was arrested and notes they're now working cooperatively with Open Carry to ensure this doesn't happen again.

"I think the taxpayers of Lansing want us to respond to gun calls. But at the same time, we need to be aware of individual rights."

Sounds pretty positive to me, they are going to work with Open Carry to make sure no one gets harassed again and realize they need to be aware of individual rights.

What I find funny is that besides one wannabe cop it's always the new guys that try to stir the pot (Edg-1 month-43 posts, BlueGunGuy-2 months-20 posts). Seems like we're being infiltrated by trolls quite often these days and I don't like it.

I wonder if by 'cooperating' with Open Carry, the LPD mean cooperating or keeping an eye on.

I wouldn't necessarily say that they are trolls. They just have differing opinions than the majority of the posters here. I also stirred the pot quite a few times when I first got here (and got plenty of negative rep to prove it). A lot of it was ignorance of some of the laws and naivety as far as JBThuggery is concerned. We can disagree with their stance without resorting to labeling them as trolls. Explaining the reasoning behind our opinions helps change minds more than name calling.

[ironcowboy]

seriously, that's the best response you can come up with? Replace those women in uniform with a handfull of hillbillies at ponderosa, with questionable firearms safety skills, and a couple pitchers of beer. While that may sound like a family reunion to you, I can't imagine that i'd enjoy a relaxing dinner in that environment. Again, what is the point? It's clearly just attention-seeking behaviour.

If you honestly think you (or anyone) needs an AK47 on you during dinner, might i suggest you take your paranoid self to a more remote location where you won't feel so jumpy and insecure? Also, be sure to put on your shiny hat. As for me, a concealed .45 is plenty of protection for dinner at Ponderosa, or even somewhere nicer that actually serves food.

The point is not that the guy did not feel safe so he brought a rifle, the point was to better educate the public (like yourself...)

[God's Country]

seriously, that's the best response you can come up with? Replace those women in uniform with a handfull of hillbillies at ponderosa, with questionable firearms safety skills, and a couple pitchers of beer. While that may sound like a family reunion to you, I can't imagine that i'd enjoy a relaxing dinner in that environment. Again, what is the point? It's clearly just attention-seeking behaviour.

If you honestly think you (or anyone) needs an AK47 on you during dinner, might i suggest you take your paranoid self to a more remote location where you won't feel so jumpy and insecure? Also, be sure to put on your shiny hat. As for me, a concealed .45 is plenty of protection for dinner at Ponderosa, or even somewhere nicer that actually serves food.

Actually it was a little humor since clearly you wish to drum up the ole OC/CC garbage.
There is no point in debating you since the Mods have made it clear that such debate will be shut down because it achieves nothing.
So why not look a some chicks asses sporting scary weapons. It achieves the same goal….well except that there are chicks asses to look at.

[BlueGunGuy]

The point is not that the guy did not feel safe so he brought a rifle, the point was to better educate the public (like yourself...)

Yeah, restaurants are such a great environment for educating people. what exactly is some jackass carrying an Ak47 in a Ponderosa going to teach me? Common sense goes a long way towards changing people's negative positions on gun rights. I have met very few anti-gun people that i can't sway by using common sense. What's wrong with using reason to soften resistance, instead of simply trumpeting the 2nd amendment and trying to cram it down people's throats in questionable environments? Reminder, the constitution and its amendments weren't handed down on Mt. Sinai. As gun lovers and gun owners we should do our part to encourage acceptance of guns and gun culture, to further ensure that our rights continue to be respected by our fellow citizens. Boneheaded stunts, like bringing your AK47 into Ponderosa is not a part of such an approach.

And Jah, someone can just as easily be considered a troll if they have thousands of posts in which they repeat the same thing over and over again, with little concern for actually explaining their position. In fact, one might argue that person is even more of a troll...

[BlueGunGuy]

Actually it was a little humor since clearly you wish to drum up the ole OC/CC garbage.
There is no point in debating you since the Mods have made it clear that such debate will be shut down because it achieves nothing.
So why not look a some chicks asses sporting scary weapons. It achieves the same goal….well except that there are chicks asses to look at.

touche.

(in fairness i am not vehemently agaisnt OC, despite my questions over its usefulness.... i recognize OC is an important part of our second amendment rights... i just think the AK47 at Ponderosa went to an absurd extreme).

[ChamberedRound]

seriously, that's the best response you can come up with? Replace those women in uniform with a handfull of hillbillies at ponderosa, with questionable firearms safety skills, and a couple pitchers of beer. While that may sound like a family reunion to you, I can't imagine that i'd enjoy a relaxing dinner in that environment. Again, what is the point? It's clearly just attention-seeking behaviour.

Yeah, restaurants are such a great environment for educating people. what exactly is some jackass carrying an Ak47 in a Ponderosa going to teach me?

Look at the pot calling the kettle black, everyone.

Don't criticize jahwarrior when you're obviously all too willing to go a step lower and bring out the same tired old bigoted stereotypes regarding those who carry guns. You know nothing of those who carried into that restaurant (with prior agreement from the owner/management, mind you), and yet you're all too willing to make assumptions that they're hillbillies, drunks, and unsafe with firearms, simply because you don't agree with it.

As for attention-seeking behavior, well, again: pot, meet kettle.

On an administrative note, let's all try and keep this crap to minimum, shall we?

As for my take, I'm with headcase. If what happened there educated some police officers, citizens, and other passers by, then I say it helped. In addition, I'm sure this encounter will help the members of Michigan Open Carry with future outings/events.

[Sandcut]

In the Socratic method of teaching, I'm going to answer a question with a question.

Which scenario has the possibility to affect the most cultural change by being seen in a positive light by the most people?

A. A regularly occurring meeting at a busy restaurant in which the owner has no problem with the OC of handguns and the public at large gets to see average people wearing handguns do boring things like eating dinner; or

B. A "one and done" episode at the same restaurant in which the public gets to see the full extent of us expressing our rights but, alienates a previously cooperative store owner and provoking a knee-jerk reaction from the public.

My opinion is that this showed, not necessarily a lack of discretion but, a lack of consideration for the restaurant owner. The guy was considerate enough to allow for the meeting and they took advantage of him. This was pushing the envelope and if the guys w/ the slung rifles didn't realize it, they damn well should have. I'd have a slightly different opinion if it was at an open venue like a park or outdoor festival rather than a private business.

The frog in the stockpot of water analogy works both ways. Sometime baby steps are the most prudent.

My vote. No. This was counterproductive.