Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default what went wrong? pics included

    ok so i just loaded my first 50 10mm rds. using lee 10mm carbide dies, lee brech lock challenger press. when i started seating bullets i had 1 round totaly smash due to trying to use built in crimp. i reset the die to not use the built in crimp just seat the bullet and 4 or 5 of 50 rounds hve weird bulges down the sides. my only guess is that its because i didnt use the camfer/deburring tool like used with rifle cases but the instructions with the dies included step by step loading directions that made no mention of chamfering/debrrring and since this was my first time loading for a pistol i folowed the directions and didnt chamfer or deburr the case mouths like i would a rifle. should i have?

    heres some pics.






  2. #2
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Wow -- that is a little different. My first thoughts would be that the sizing die is resizing the cases too small, or the bullets you are using are oversized.

    Can you measure the inside diameter of the case (after resizing but before you bell it) and the outside diameter of the bullet and post the measurements? That will likely tell the tale.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    wish i could but i just finished loaded the last of them. this occured on only 4 of 100. due to reply's on another forum im thinking the 4 that were a problem were the first 4 that i used when setting up the expander die and therefore the expander didnt go deep enough into the case.bullets used were hornady 155g xtp.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Looks like too much neck tension by the bulge where the bullet is. Could be from not belling the case enough or sizing down too far. What die are you using to bell the case? I would check the case dimensions before seating. Looks like your using Hornady bullets which are oversized so that doesn't help the situation. Make sure you are not over crimping.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Looks like the effects of a die that seats and crimps at the same time. You have the crimp coming in before the bullet is seated and you fold the casing.

    Lycanbeentheredonethatthrope

    I taught Chuck Norris to bump-fire.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    using lee's deluxe carbide pistol dies. not crimping at all. (going to order a dedicated crimp die) because i hate using crimps built into seating dies. like i said i think i didnt have the expander die setup far enough for those casings and im guessing those 4 were the first ones i ran through the expander die so they werent "belled" enough. on the hornady's i didnt know about them being oversized. im actually not a fan of hornady but they were the only .40cal bullet tips the local shop had in at the time. personaly i prefer noslers for all my reloading. with my .223 there was an actual noticable differance in group size between the hornady vmax and nosler ballistic tips. also wen i load hornady vmax (bought 1000when i first started loading so i still load some every now and again)i get varying C.O.L without changing the dies. i still get some variance in c.o.l with nosler but not near as much as the vmax.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthrope View Post
    Looks like the effects of a die that seats and crimps at the same time. You have the crimp coming in before the bullet is seated and you fold the casing.

    Lycanbeentheredonethatthrope
    nope i have the die adjusted so it doesnt crimp at all. i cant stand using the crimp built into seating dies. i always order a separate lee factory crimp die and crimp in its own stage.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Not flaring enough can cause that in some instances, but then what are you using to take the flare out? When you say you aren't "crimping" does that mean you aren't using that die to remove flare?

    A taper crimp will take the flare out, but I never crimp into the bullets in autoloaders. I've used Hornady .40's without issue many times......

    So......you have the seater ajusted the whole way down and then wind the whole die in until you get the right depth? That's the waY I do with RCBS dies and then for the crimp die I take the seating components out of the die completely.

    Lycanclarificationthrope

    I taught Chuck Norris to bump-fire.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthrope View Post
    Not flaring enough can cause that in some instances, but then what are you using to take the flare out? When you say you aren't "crimping" does that mean you aren't using that die to remove flare?

    A taper crimp will take the flare out, but I never crimp into the bullets in autoloaders. I've used Hornady .40's without issue many times......

    So......you have the seater ajusted the whole way down and then wind the whole die in until you get the right depth? That's the waY I do with RCBS dies and then for the crimp die I take the seating components out of the die completely.

    Lycanclarificationthrope
    i set my seating crimping die how it said in the instructions. ti said to put the shell hollder in the press and hold the press at the top of its stroke and screw the seater die down untill it hit the shell foot then back the die out 3 full turns. if crimp is desired turn the die back in from 3 turns out in very small increments untill desired crimp level is reached.

    since i didnt want to crimp i screwed the die in till it hit the shell holder then backed it out 3 turns and set the lock ring i then unscrewed the knob at the top that determines seating depth all the way and put a case andbullet in and slowly tightened the knob about an 1/8th of a turn at a time untill my col was 1.26 like the load data suggested.

    did i do something wrong there?

    im still thinking i just didnt turn the expander setting down enough to expand the cases enough.


    dont remember if i mentioned above but this is my first time loading for pistol so any advice/critique is welcome. i've loaded a couple thousand rifle rounds (.223 and .308) with great success but never for a pistol

  10. #10
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    Default Re: what went wrong? pics included

    Quote Originally Posted by AR-15 Outlaw View Post
    wish i could but i just finished loaded the last of them. this occured on only 4 of 100. due to reply's on another forum im thinking the 4 that were a problem were the first 4 that i used when setting up the expander die and therefore the expander didnt go deep enough into the case.bullets used were hornady 155g xtp.
    I agree with Lycanthrope. It's not an issue with the expander. If you have enough of a bell to get the bullet in the case without just completely crushing it, that's enough and more won't help this issue.

    I seat and crimp as separate steps so I missed the issue of crimping it too much as it's seated. To fix that, adjust the seat/crimp die. There are plenty of videos on you-tube that show how. My suggestion is to actually measure the crimp as you "sneak up" on the sufficient amount. Crimp so the case mouth finishes off no bigger than the specifications in your data manual but don't go under either, or if you think you have to go under to avoid a "lip" that can screw up feeding, use the diameter just behind the bell and do not go under that. If you do it just by eye, especially with lead bullets, you can easily overcrimp even just a little which deforms the bullet and can cause problems with accuracy even though the rounds look perfect and chamber perfect (I found this the hard way).

    As long as there's enough crimp to return the case mouth to the specified diameter for the cartridge, I've had no problems with feeding/chambering and definitely no problems with plenty of bullet tension.

    My Lyman manual says outside case diameter (max.) for the 10mm is .423" at the case mouth.
    Last edited by Philadelphia; January 25th, 2010 at 10:57 PM.

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