Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    Hello, All:

    I'm intrigued by this:
    https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...auction_show/1

    Here's my question: Since the potential exists for the pistol-length barrel and the shoulder stock to exist in place on the same receiver at the same time, is there a legality issue? Obviously, you avoid this in practice simply by performing each step of the conversion in the proper order, but the question still remains.

    Im asking for three reasons:

    1. I'd love to have a rimfire rifle and pistol that shared mags.
    2. In my opinion, the Ruger 10/22 and Charger don't count.
    3. I find the Buckmark Carbine to be painfully unattractive.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    well, the Thompson/center constructive possession case centered on this issue.

    in the case, T/C was selling the contender in whatever caliber with a receiver, a pistol barrel and grip, and a rifle barrel and butt stock.

    instructions said DO NOT use the short barrel with the buttstock, etc.

    ATF said possession of the kit was constructive possession of a SBR

    is merely possessing a pistol barrel and rifle barrel as you described "constructive possession " of a SBR.

    ATF says yes...the Supreme Court said NO.

    absent intent (mens rea) , its not constructive possession.

    if all you had was the short barrel pistol AND the butt stock setup sans the long rifle barrel, sure, since you have no LEGAL use for that butt stock, thus ATF COULD prosecute.

    basically, to be legally safe you want to make sure you dont possess combinations of parts that have no legal use together.

    a lawyer may give a different opinions.... I'm not a doctor.
    "Oderint Dum Metuant" - BMFH

    "Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

    Note: any whingeing crazy that hits my PM inbox will be deleted without reply

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBell View Post
    well, the Thompson/center constructive possession case centered on this issue.

    in the case, T/C was selling the contender in whatever caliber with a receiver, a pistol barrel and grip, and a rifle barrel and butt stock.

    instructions said DO NOT use the short barrel with the buttstock, etc.

    ATF said possession of the kit was constructive possession of a SBR

    is merely possessing a pistol barrel and rifle barrel as you described "constructive possession " of a SBR.

    ATF says yes...the Supreme Court said NO.

    absent intent (mens rea) , its not constructive possession.

    if all you had was the short barrel pistol AND the butt stock setup sans the long rifle barrel, sure, since you have no LEGAL use for that butt stock, thus ATF COULD prosecute.

    basically, to be legally safe you want to make sure you dont possess combinations of parts that have no legal use together.

    a lawyer may give a different opinions.... I'm not a doctor.
    I'm not a lawyer, but thats how I've always understood it as well. Intent, actual construction, and the combination of parts is required.

    1. So long as you never assemble it as a SBR - you're ok.
    2. So long as the combination of parts that you have can be formed together as a lawful gun, as a handgun AND a long gun - you're ok, just dont do #1 in the process of conversion.
    3. If you only have a partial kit that you couldn't make a complete long gun from the handgun(ie: not having a barrel 16" or more), it would be then constructive possession.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBell View Post
    basically, to be legally safe you want to make sure you dont possess combinations of parts that have no legal use together.
    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    So long as the combination of parts that you have can be formed together as a lawful gun, as a handgun AND a long gun - you're ok, just dont do #1 in the process of conversion.
    So... it looks like this is going to be one of those "fishy" areas, huh? I was of the mind that making sure the short barrel and buttstock never occupied the receiver at the same time would be a safe bet. However, Jay's assessment of the situation gives me pause.The major appeal of this setup is having a pistol and rifle that share magazines, but if that turns out to be the one thing I don't want, then it's a dealbreaker.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    So long as the combination of parts that you have can be formed together as a lawful gun, as a handgun AND a long gun
    This is correct.




    It's up to the END USER to do the right thing. AND if you're worried about the ATF coming to get you over something simple as this you've got bigger problems.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stooperzero View Post
    This is correct.
    Good to know
    Quote Originally Posted by Stooperzero View Post
    It's up to the END USER to do the right thing.
    Well, I never intended to do the wrong thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stooperzero View Post
    AND if you're worried about the ATF coming to get you over something simple as this you've got bigger problems.
    It was a small concern, yes... since it's happened before.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Carbine Kit = "Constructive Possession" of SBR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stooperzero View Post
    This is correct.




    It's up to the END USER to do the right thing. AND if you're worried about the ATF coming to get you over something simple as this you've got bigger problems.
    Just ask Randy Weaver. They were on him for something pretty minor, too.

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