Excerpt from Justice Roberts gives hint that Incorporation WILL win in SCOTUS 2A Case

[zackattack784]

Here's the scheme I developed to make NJ " shall issue " post Heller.

NJ recognizes LEOSA, artificially creating an Animal Farmesque situation where one set of citizens are explicitly recognized by law to be " more equal " then others ( you should see the Statutory language , its terrible and the bias is obvious in the text of the law).

The 14th Ammendment was specifically enacted to provide equal protection under the law. NJ's recognition and acceptance of LEOSA flies in the face of the 14th Ammendment in both word and practice.

Once McDonald comes down in favor of Incorporation of the 2A against the States, NJ residents denied carry permits file a class action suit against the State. For the above stated reasons.

This will force the State to either rescind recognition of LEOSA , or switch to a "shall issue " format.

The FOP/PBA will NEVER allow the State to rescind LEOSA , so that only leaves the State one option , either voluntarily or by suit they go to "shall issue"

I would imagine the same strategy would prevail in the few states remaining that are " may issue ". In the rest of the Country that is "shall issue " , this isnt an issue becuase there is no conflict with LEOSA because the State issues permits to anyone that applies and is qualified. But in the last few holdouts that remain " may issue " , whilst recognizing LEOSA , the Incorporation ruling makes a HUGE difference.

I'd rep ya if I could but I need to spread the wealth around a little bit first . You have my full support!

[buster2209]

Hey, SOTR, I am completely lost on this thread. Can you explain what you are talking about?

Edit: Scrap that SOTR, I found this thread.

[Warpt762x39]

See zack , thats exactly where we disagree. I have EVERY confidence that NJ Laws WILL FALL. I cant say in what order. But since AR's ,AK's etc are most definetly " the most popular firearms ", which is something Scalia talked about in Heller , then I see NJ's AWB being struck down. I also see NJ going shall issue and said as much to the new Senate President Steve Sweeney ( whos rated A by the NRA ) when I had a one hour sit down with him before Xmas. His response ? Good , it'll save the Legislature from having to do it.

I can understand being pessimistic to a point, but having been on the frontlines of the war over here in PSRNJ for the last several years, Im very confident McDonald will bring BIG changes to NJ. Keep in mind though, since their going to behave like a bunch of 5 year olds that didnt get their way , the NJ Legislature could still do things like NOT sign reciprocity agreements , or require live fire training as part of the permit , etc.

I expect them to still stubbornly fuck with people , just like DC did post Heller. But I cannot imagine a situation post Heller AND McDonald where things will stay they way they are in NJ

That's how they currently do things in Arizona. It's not a whole lot of live fire but it's still part of the CCW process. It hasn't been an inconvenience for any of the dozens of people I know who went through it. They like the excuse to shoot.

[son of the revolution]

That's how they currently do things in Arizona. It's not a whole lot of live fire but it's still part of the CCW process. It hasn't been an inconvenience for any of the dozens of people I know who went through it. They like the excuse to shoot.

Oh , I didnt mean to imply that I had any issue with requiring live fire, I had to do it down in Florida. I was just tossing it out there as an example of some of the things NJ could do to fuck with people. In other words, they could refuse reciprocity with PA or other States , by making live fire a requirment to get a carry permit.

[buster2209]

Oh , I didnt mean to imply that I had any issue with requiring live fire, I had to do it down in Florida. I was just tossing it out there as an example of some of the things NJ could do to fuck with people. In other words, they could refuse reciprocity with PA or other States , by making live fire a requirment to get a carry permit.

All in all though, (after I've spent an hour understanding this) the ability to get a CC permit in NJ will be a feasible thing for the average Joe. That's quite a feat!

I think you are right that if this does occur, NJ wont honour CC permits from other states due to there 'lax' permit practices.

[son of the revolution]

All in all though, (after I've spent an hour understanding this) the ability to get a CC permit in NJ will be a feasible thing for the average Joe. That's quite a feat!

I think you are right that if this does occur, NJ wont honour CC permits from other states due to there 'lax' permit practices.

Exactly. The State Legislature will be SO pissed that their going to be forced to accept things under Incorporation that they've successfully with held from people for 30 years that their gonna get really shitty and juvenile about the whole thing and try to place as many onerous restrictions in the way as they possibly can. Its the exact same thing DC did after Heller. Whats both laughable and sad at the same time is I can see them reacting like this, based on nothing more then long suffering experience with the Holier the Thou attitude from the assholes in Trenton. This State has very much always had a " do as I say , not as I do" mentality. Its sickening, and just another in the LONG list of reasons why it wont matter to me any more by July

[buster2209]

Exactly. The State Legislature will be SO pissed that their going to be forced to accept things under Incorporation that they've successfully with held from people for 30 years that their gonna get really shitty and juvenile about the whole thing and try to place as many onerous restrictions in the way as they possibly can. Its the exact same thing DC did after Heller. Whats both laughable and sad at the same time is I can see them reacting like this, based on nothing more then long suffering experience with the Holier the Thou attitude from the assholes in Trenton. This State has very much always had a " do as I say , not as I do" mentality. Its sickening, and just another in the LONG list of reasons why it wont matter to me any more by July

What I find particularly amazing is that wouldn't have even seemed feasible a year ago and now it could be reality! It does bode well for the future of the 2A.

It's also interesting to see how the Federal Government is being used to protect people's rights when the momentum at the moment seems to be with the State's asserting the 10A to get the Feds off there back particularly with the Firearm Freedom Acts. It's almost ironic!

I guess those 'old dead dudes' who wrote the Constitution really did know what they were on about!

[son of the revolution]

The hardest part for me is going to be waiting until SCOTUS actually renders a decision, which probably wont be until right around the anniversary of Heller , which IIRC is sometime in mid to late June. So I know the actual arguments are coming in a little over a month, and Im SUPER confident its going to go our way , but its going to be the waiting to hear the official decision thats gonna drive me nuts

Gotta make sure Im home that day and have plenty of ink for the printer so I can print out the ruling and give it a home on my shelf next to Heller.

[Warpt762x39]

I guess those 'old dead dudes' who wrote the Constitution really did know what they were on about!

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