Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Just to add a voice of dissent, I don't really think building an AR saves that much money. And if you are buying/building an AR for SHTF, ie a tactical carbine for protection and as a utility rifle, and your life and or food supply may depend on it, I don't see how an extra $200 is money wasted to have something rock-solid reliable and tack-driver accurate.

    You can get a complete lower from Cav-Arms for $225.
    http://www.cavalryarms.com/MKII.html

    You can get a basic mil-spec complete carbine lower from a number of companies (LMT, BCM, Spike's) for about $320.

    Start by getting that. Then save for about two months and get a finished upper, sans bolt carrier group, from a company that properly installs their barrels and gas tubes.

    LMT and BCM are both good options. LMT actually machines the receivers for Colt. Both make products that are equal to or better than Colt & FN, but without breaking the bank. A finished upper without handguards or BCG from LMT or BCM are about $475.

    Next, buy your already properly assembled bolt carrier group (BCG), with a properly staked gas key. Buy one from the same company as your upper receiver. $125-ish.

    Add basic handguards, charging handle, and a back-up iron sight and you will have a functioning, mil-spec or better M4gery for $800-900.

    As you get the cash you can buy optics, a free-floated rail, etc. But accessorizing is just gravy.

    The AR-15/M16 platform is an excellent one, but it is not as forgiving to poor manufacturing and materials as something like an AK. If you really can't afford $900-1000 in your budget for a rifle, spend $600 and buy an AK. Don't waste the money on a "budget" AR. Just IMHO.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Also, make sure when you get the bolt carrier group you order one that is "M16" or "F/A" (full auto). This doesn't make your rifle full auto, isn't illegal in any way, but it makes your rifle more reliable. Also make sure you get a lower with the appropriate buffer for your upper/gas length. Rifles, carbines, and middy all need different buffers.

    Also, I guess I should add that all of the parts I recommend buying separately in previous post, can basically be assembled without tools. You are just putting together parts that would be taken apart for field stripping.
    Last edited by panther76; January 15th, 2010 at 09:37 PM.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Quote Originally Posted by panther76 View Post
    Also, make sure when you get the bolt carrier group you order one that is "M16" or "F/A" (full auto). This doesn't make your rifle full auto, isn't illegal in any way, but it makes your rifle more reliable. Also make sure you get a lower with the appropriate buffer for your upper/gas length. Rifles, carbines, and middy all need different buffers.
    I was nodding in agreement with both your posts until here.

    no they dont.

    rifle buffers are for rifle length buttstocks, carbine buffers for carbine (shorter) buttstocks along with the shorter spring. I run a carbine butt/buffer/spring on my one middy upper all the time, and I can toss my A2 upper on that lower and it runs as well.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    i think you should get your lower receiver before you get the lower parts kit. i got the lpk first and just sat there looking at this bag full of pins and springs and other stuff and was like "what the hell did i get myself into?"...

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
    I was nodding in agreement with both your posts until here.

    no they dont.

    rifle buffers are for rifle length buttstocks, carbine buffers for carbine (shorter) buttstocks along with the shorter spring. I run a carbine butt/buffer/spring on my one middy upper all the time, and I can toss my A2 upper on that lower and it runs as well.
    Whether you are using a carbine, H, or H2 does matter. Different gas lengths produce different recoil and can require a lighter or heavier buffer. The rifle may still work and cycle, but depending on ammo, whether or not the gun is dirty, etc, the buffer weight can cause a weapon to not cycle. I was referring to the gas length not the buffer tube length.

    My friend had a CMT midlength that he put on a Bushmaster lower that he had with an H buffer in it. He had troubles with it cycling when he used cheap ammo in the 55gr range. He switched to a car buffer and even the cheaper ammo seems to feed ok. But I've also read the opposite argument that if you use heavy loads like all the newer 75-77 "super bad guy stopper match grade who's a what's it" you can have the opposite problem of the load being too hot for a car buffer.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Sigh.

    It's hard to be overgassed unless you have poor mag springs. What works for full auto isn't the same for semi-auto.

    Most people have no idea and just err on the sice of a heavy buffer...because it slows the cycle down. Not optimum, but it works. Learn how it works and it gets easy to tweak.

    When you have issues, it is rarely buffer type....more likely gas tube alignment and such.

    AR's are BRUTALLY simple. Guys who change their own brakes are more advanced.

    Lycanfeelslikeashamwhenhefixesthemthrope

    I taught Chuck Norris to bump-fire.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Quote Originally Posted by panther76 View Post
    Whether you are using a carbine, H, or H2 does matter. Different gas lengths produce different recoil and can require a lighter or heavier buffer. The rifle may still work and cycle, but depending on ammo, whether or not the gun is dirty, etc, the buffer weight can cause a weapon to not cycle. I was referring to the gas length not the buffer tube length.

    My friend had a CMT midlength that he put on a Bushmaster lower that he had with an H buffer in it. He had troubles with it cycling when he used cheap ammo in the 55gr range. He switched to a car buffer and even the cheaper ammo seems to feed ok. But I've also read the opposite argument that if you use heavy loads like all the newer 75-77 "super bad guy stopper match grade who's a what's it" you can have the opposite problem of the load being too hot for a car buffer.
    Your making it more complicated than it really is, the fact is in a carbine gas system, 16" or 14.5" barrel will work fine with a standard or H buffer, H buffer prefered.

    Mid-lenght will work fine with a carbine buffer, not neccessary for a H buffer, but it will work as well.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    Don't forget to support the "ears" of the lower when you drive in the trigger guard roll-pin. This is VERY important. You'll wreck the lower if your not careful.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    as stated above,there is not much savings in building an Ar-15 apposed to out right buying one,that being said I went with the stripped lower and a DEL-TON M4 carbine kit w/removable carry handle,the reason i did this is because if you own one and the SHTF you should be able to field strip one and know how it functions,after you assemble the AR you will have a better understanding of how it work's, after all the shipping and transfer fee's i might have saved maybe $100 bux apposed to buying a doublestar M4 flat top, delivered from WWW.BUDSGUNSHOP.COM and as for DEL-TON i love mine they are good to go in my opinion ,and i used the DPMS lower. all said and done it was like $700 for the kit, lower, tax, shipping, FFL fees and to the range.

    here it is, at the top of this picture!

    http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/...0b&topic=673.0 real helpful video

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782 and a very helpful artical on a lower build
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by freddy g; January 16th, 2010 at 09:24 PM. Reason: added helpful links
    "If your not prepaired to go all the way,than your not prepaired to go anywhere! " James yeager 1/9/13

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Thoughts before starting an AR-15 build...

    When I build one I KNOW it will run.....when I buy one...

    I don't.

    Lycanthereitisthrope

    I taught Chuck Norris to bump-fire.

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