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Thread: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
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January 1st, 2010, 01:01 PM #1
Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
The primary (and hopefully) only use of my pistol now, is for target. I don't carry yet, and may not ever. I've been buying exclusively "practice"/"target" ammo (9mm). In the event that I ever need my weapon in a home defense situation, is there any reason to believe that such ammo won't get the job done?
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January 1st, 2010, 01:09 PM #2Grand Member
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Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
It depends on how well you do your part. But you'd always be better off with hollow points, not only for stopping power, but to reduce overpenetration even WHEN you do your part.
Perhaps you can pick up a couple boxes of Federal HST or Gold Dots. They're only about $20-25 per box of 50, a little more than "practice ammo" but not terribly so, so you can use a box at the range to make sure you gun feeds them well. Then just keep a spare magazine loaded with it for when you're not at the range. All in all, an extra $10-20 over what you'd probably spend anyway for target shooting anyway, and you've got a little more piece of mind.Last edited by rikilii; January 1st, 2010 at 01:13 PM.
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January 1st, 2010, 01:13 PM #3Grand Member
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Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
FMJ ammo will do the job but hollowpoint does it better. If it was a SHTF scenarion I would not throw my ammo away because it was not a hollowpoint but when I have the ability to make a choice it would always be hollowpoints from a reputable manufacturer and if possible their "Law Enforcement" line. This gives you the best hollowpoint design loaded with low flash powder and very good quality control.
The hollowpoint will generally expand making itself bigger. It is also a hotly discussed topic but many believe the expansion creates an "energy dump" causing more damage to your assailant. Personally I like the reduced chance of the round exiting a person and still being a liability.
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January 1st, 2010, 03:08 PM #4
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
Your FMJs in 9 mm. may be great for practice. However, the 9 mm. fmj has its issues when it comes to stopping power - namely that it has far less of it than other semiauto calibers (such as .45 ACP). Ask anyone coming back from the Sandbox how their Beretta stacked up against the older 1911s from a stopping power standpoint.
If you're going to carry 9 mm. for self-defense, then you'd better be packing engineered JHP bullets, preferably 147-grain or 124-grain in +p. Good choices are as follows:
Winchester Black Talon (GunBroker only)
Winchester Ranger SXT (being phased out, grab while you can) law enforcement grade
Federal HST (Hydra-Shok) law-enforcement grade
Speer Gold Dot
Remington Golden Saber
The Black Talon and SXT bullets are particularly badass. They turn into miniature pinwheels of death after penetrating the target. Wound channels are huge and grotesque. Virtually all of the bullet energy is dumped into the target (criminal scumbag), and if all goes according to plan, that energy transfer is enough to shut down the aforementioned scumbag's nervous system (the hydrostatic shock effect), stopping them dead in their tracks.These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for. LMAO
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January 1st, 2010, 04:39 PM #5
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
Thanks folks. Another question answered perfectly and quickly. If I ultimately choose to carry, it won't be this CZ-75b. It's just too big. I'll have lots to consider and choices to make at that time, but for now, the CZ is a range/home defense weapon. Your points remain valid though. Hollow points it is.
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January 1st, 2010, 04:41 PM #6
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
Opinions vary, but I'm going to have to disagree with most of this. Federal HSTs are NOT Hydra-Shocks. And they are far superior to both Black Talons and SXTs, which are both dated designs. And there's probably little or no hydrostatic shock with 9mm or most other service pistol calibers due to low velocity. Certainly SXTs and Black Talons have no magical "dead in their tracks" effect.
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January 1st, 2010, 05:12 PM #7
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
When it comes to self-defense, well placed 30gr. .22 LR LRN is infinitely better than a 240gr. .44 Magnum SJHP that misses the target entirely. Shot placement is, hands down, the most important factor when shooting for self-defense.
In my humble opinion - you should 'carry' (or: 'use in a self defense situation') whatever ammunition that you target practice with. Why? Because that's what you've been 'training' yourself to hit your target with.
I don't care what anyone says - even though I can't speak from personal experience, there is plenty of empirical evidence to support the fact that: getting shot with any caliber bullet of any design from a firearm is a very unpleasant thing. I don't know about you - but if I got shot with *any* caliber - especially in my torso - I probably wouldn't feel much like fighting anymore and I am pretty sure I'd want to get to a hospital real quick!
My recommendation (to anyone who asks) for a "home defense" weapon is a 12 Ga. shotgun; further, I recomend pump-action. And, of course, I'd recomend that you take that shotgun to the range and shoot the heck out of it with whatever ammo you're gonna keep it loaded with (I'd recomend 0 or 00 buckshot).
But, as I said at the top - if you *only* practiced with 30gr. .22 LR ammo in a .22 handgun, and you can put that round COM on the target during practice - every time - then that's the weapon/ammo that you should grab for self defense should (G-d forbid) the need ever arise.
So - lastly, is hollow point ammunition (especially +P, if your firearm can handle it), technically speaking, more efficient? Yes - absolutely it is. Therefore, I would recomend that (if you think you ever might need to use your firearm for self defense) should you definitely switch from standard 'military style' ammo you now practice with to something with a superior design to practice with. Or, at the very least, make the majority of the ammunition that you use in 'target practice' the best (most 'efficient'/powerful - and, don't forget: reliable) stuff you can find that your pistol can handle.
.Last edited by Bruce; January 1st, 2010 at 05:16 PM.
Cogito, ergo armatus sum....Say that to my face.
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January 1st, 2010, 06:59 PM #8
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
Federal HSTs are NOT Hydra-Shocks.
Hydra-shok is older technology and more expensive to implement. HST is less expensive and newer, with a slight advantage in knockdown power.
Interestingly, HST makes use of "death petal" geometry made popular by the Ranger SXT and Black Talon series, the Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, et. al.
And they are far superior to both Black Talons and SXTs, which are both dated designs.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler...hester_9mm.pdf
And there's probably little or no hydrostatic shock with 9mm or most other service pistol calibers due to low velocity. Certainly SXTs and Black Talons have no magical "dead in their tracks" effect.
The 147-grain 9-para normally produces a pressure wave of around 300-350 PSI, which is enough to cause the hydrostatic effect, as illustrated in figure 1.
You are, of course, correct in stating that there is no magical "stop dead" affect in the real world, which is why I prefaced with "if everything goes according to plan". Real-world results depend on the size of the criminal scumbag and shot placement relative to the spinal column.These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for. LMAO
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January 1st, 2010, 07:11 PM #9
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
You said this:
"Federal HST (Hydra-Shok) law-enforcement grade"
That suggested to me you thought they were the same.
For the most part you could swap 147-grain HST for Hydra-Shok and have more or less the same stopping power.
Interestingly, HST makes use of "death petal" geometry made popular by the Ranger SXT and Black Talon series, the Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, et. al.
Despite their status as "dated" the Black Talon and SXTs have a history of taking down bad guys, and that history is longer than the HST.
The current iteration of the SXT penetrates deeper into tissue than a comparable HST - check out the ballistics tests if you disbelieve.
The 147-grain 9-para normally produces a pressure wave of around 300-350 PSI, which is enough to cause the hydrostatic effect, as illustrated in figure 1.
You are, of course, correct in stating that there is no magical "stop dead" affect in the real world, which is why I prefaced with "if everything goes according to plan". Real-world results depend on the size of the criminal scumbag and shot placement relative to the spinal column.Last edited by ungawa; January 1st, 2010 at 07:20 PM.
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January 1st, 2010, 07:19 PM #10Grand Member
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Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
Bruce, I agree that it is improtant to shoot what you carry but given the price difference I do not shoot HST as practice ammo. however it is a very good idea if you do not shoot what you carry to find a training ammo that replicates the POA/POI of your carry ammo.
I also am very much in agreement with a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense. I grew up shooting skeet and am very comfortable with one. It's also great fun to bust skeets. Keep it loaded with OO buck and have no worries. My handgun is just to carry around the house because it's very easy to keep on you. Give me a chance and I'm getting my 12 gauge.
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