Lebanon Man Fires Warning Shots

[HBGMarine]

"Warning shots" at a naked man in the yard? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! IANAL, but this guy could get in a lot of trouble if I'm not mistaken. I'm really surprised there were no charges filed against the homeowner.

Lebanon resident fires warning shot after spotting half-naked trespasser
By MONICA VON DOBENECK, The Patriot-News
December 28, 2009, 2:52PM
A resident of the 200 block of Locust Street, Lebanon, told police he fired a warning shot after seeing a half naked man in his yard about 3 a.m. Sunday.

He told police he was awoken by thumping noises. so he grabbed his handgun and went downstairs to investigate. He saw a man on the ground in his rear yard in a fetal position, then watched the man walk around the side of his house to his front yard. The man was mumbling incoherently and was wearing nothing but a T-shirt, he told police.

The man ran east on Locust Street following the warning shot. Police found clothing and a wallet they believe belong to the man in the rear yard. The investigation is continuing.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...s_warning.html

[XACEX]

if there was some crackhead with his dong hanging out in my yard id pull out the 'lethal force is justifiable in defense of rape' clause. still have to retreat first though : ( hopefully thats changing soon

[ksig1869]

if there was some crackhead with his dong hanging out in my yard id pull out the 'lethal force is justifiable in defense of rape' clause. still have to retreat first though : ( hopefully thats changing soon

In a case like this lethal force would not be justified because there was no immediate threat to the homeowner or anyone else. As far as the short report reads there doesn't seem like there was any justification for pulling a gun, let alone firing a warning shot. The guy should have called the police and waited for them to arrive to deal with the man and stood watch to make sure that the guy didn't try to break in or if possible left his house.

[TaePo]

Though the fellow appeared 'crazy' it does not mean he was necessarily dangerous. We must keep in mind that such a person could be in a sugar shock or other medical condition may have occurred. It might be the very first time they have suffered such symptoms. I would use extreme caution and not use lethal force as a deterrent for these reasons unless he was targeting someone with force or threat of force.

You may attempt to apprehend until police arrive, I believe, and use escalation of force techniques if you think it is required. IANAL. As he was not breaking in, I would observe and/or tell them to get out, now and call the police.

Although we are not required to, we should think all encounters through and realize, just because we have lethal force, it doesn't mean we must use it. We, as humans, also come with compassion and sometimes that is even more powerful.

[XACEX]

notice how i said "you have to retreat first" during which time you would grab your gun and call the cops

[TaePo]

notice how i said "you have to retreat first" during which time you would grab your gun and call the cops

Although your post played a hand in my response, it was not the primary motivator. You did, however, end your previous post with "( hopefully thats changing soon" after making a statement on the aggressive side for trespassing. Please see the reference library (top right) section to review the force and deadly force laws and specifically trespassing / trespassers. Extreme caution must be used when investigating over trespass. (IANAL)

My post was definitely geared at the article as that person actually fired shots. Of course, we are only going with what the story reports. There may be other facts that were not reported.

Warning shots endanger everyone and provide no defense. If he was so afraid for his life, he would have aimed for the person instead. As he did not aim for the person, he was not justified in employing deadly force. It's circular logic that can end one up in the big house or on the losing end of a large civil suit.

My post is a reminder to recall extenuating circumstances that might be beyond the intruders control. What if he was being chased by someone? You can not force someone off your property unless they can be completely safe in doing so. If you have ever been in a fight or argument only to find it was a big misunderstanding or miscommunication afterward, then you know to have the wisdom to engage with the ability to withhold judgment and be able to change your mode of operation in an instant.

I have seen situations where the victim is a criminal and the suspect turned out to be the victim etc. Unless you are there from start to finish, do not make assumptions. Robber or undercover making arrest?

You hear an elder lady yelling 'gimme my purse!'. You run around the corner as you hear a shot go off. The lady is on the ground, a man with a gun in hand is standing with her purse. What do you do? If you engage, you may be shooting at an armed citizen such as yourself which fired at the knife wielding suspects who fled around another corner. He has not holstered yet and is about to return the purse and render aid to the elder lady. Your best bet would be to draw and seek cover and ask the person to identify themselves. If they are a criminal, they would probably run away. If you do not trust them, stay behind cover and do not approach until you are assured they are not a criminal. (If you read the Pa. statutes you will see there is still a possible defense in this case; the fact as you knew them to be and reasonable standards etc. But can you live with it if you were wrong? And don't forget the money to be lost in a civil suit.) IANAL.

It is difficult. Hesitation can get you killed, but so could reacting without considering all the possibilities. Not to mention the lawsuits etc.

I have read about cases where police intervene when a man is practically killing their spouse and once subdued by the police (or shot), the woman jumps on the officers or the family files suit.

I am a proponent of the 'magic talisman' effect that occurs with firearms that can lead to disaster in many ways. It is a phrase I use on these forums but may have been started elsewhere, I am not sure. Even I can succumb to this psychological phenomenon.

So, my post is more of a warning to be wise about our assumptions when incidents occur; it is also why I did not quote anyone directly. I do this because there are always new people on the site and I don't mind repeating myself when I feel it is warranted.

[mrnyman]

Forensic Psychiatrists have long known that Some Rapists have been know to remove their clothing before a rape (to minimize DNA evidence) Maybe this home owner interupted a rape in progress , too bad he couldnt legally put a bullet in his ass.

[30Glock]

Forensic Psychiatrists have long known that Some Rapists have been know to remove their clothing before a rape (to minimize DNA evidence) Maybe this home owner interupted a rape in progress , too bad he couldnt legally put a bullet in his ass.

The report suggest that a naked man was in a yard, And a warning shot was fired by the home owner. Everything else is speculative at this point. And I would bet the farm, That when they say (investigation is continuing) That their will soon be charges levied at the home owner. There is no way that his behavior was justified.

[ksig1869]

Forensic Psychiatrists have long known that Some Rapists have been know to remove their clothing before a rape (to minimize DNA evidence) Maybe this home owner interupted a rape in progress , too bad he couldnt legally put a bullet in his ass.

I would be interested in your source for this. I'm not an expert in any capacity but that sounds absurd. That just doesn't make any sense because then they would be naked before an attack which would make them stand out and more prone to recognition. I just never heard that before.

[Statkowski]

And what was the temperature outside at three o'clock in the morning? Around here, at that time of night, being naked outside would definitely dampen anyone's libido.