Forum Changes: Negative Reputation Disabled Indefinitely

[RocketFoot]

To clarify, I did both the negative rep and the verbal abuse (), and 2-3 days later, I green squared you for the remarkable turn-around that you exhibited (you eventually became one of the top posters on this forum IMHO). You took the constructive criticism like an adult. I believe I've hit you with red since then once or twice, but as you said, we're adults and we both have an understanding of the functions that rep can serve.

Great testimonial...but could these same results still have ensued from just the polite verbal beating (minus the neg rep)? That's all I'm trying to find out here...

[Kaos]

Perhaps if Dan decides that this is an association, there will be a poll or thread for nominating a few new mods. Or a poll or thread of who should/shouldn't be mods.

If there's more work to be done, the answer is typically to find more workers.

You have to be careful there though. From past experience people looking to become mods, probably should never be. You'll be able to tell who will be positioning themselves for such without ever stating their intent if it turns into such a process for becoming a mod.

[adymond]

To clarify, I did both the negative rep and the verbal abuse (), and 2-3 days later, I green squared you for the remarkable turn-around that you exhibited (you eventually became one of the top posters on this forum IMHO). You took the constructive criticism like an adult. I believe I've hit you with red since then once or twice, but as you said, we're adults and we both have an understanding of the functions that rep can serve.

Plus I like the abuse once in a while. It makes me feel dirty . . . in a good way . Damn it! That wasn't supposed to be said publicly.

Great testimonial...but could these same results still have ensued from just the polite verbal beating (minus the neg rep)? That's all I'm trying to find out here...

I don't know if it would have. Having a senior member with a commanding reputation have a visible impact on my profile is a great motivator to behave accordingly. It's not to say that I fall into lockstep, but that I am able to communicate in a respectful way and not devolve into the inner 4 year old that can at times take control of me.

I enjoy the rep comments and when I get neg rep it generally comes with constructive criticism. When it is just stupid I don't worry about it because this is an internet forum. I appreciate that others might read what I say and pay attention to it a bit more because I have amassed some rep, but it isn't the end of the world for me. I do think it is a very valuable tool though. It serves as a reminder that we need to behave even if we are acting within the forum rules there are still repercussions for pushing the envelope.

[adymond]

You have to be careful there though. From past experience people looking to become mods, probably should never be. You'll be able to tell who will be positioning themselves for such without ever stating their intent if it turns into such a process for becoming a mod.

I think the most that should happen would be to have people nominated as mods and the current staff would then do their thing and make the decision since I tend to agree. I think there is a difference though in people saying "If there's a job to be done I will step up" and "I want to do this, I think you need me to do this" since this is online it's hard to figure out which is which.

[unloved]

I have a serious, straightforward question.

Does this post (#4) warrant a report?
http://forum.pafoa.org/hunting-23/81...ml#post1005926

[NineseveN]

Great testimonial...but could these same results still have ensued from just the polite verbal beating (minus the neg rep)? That's all I'm trying to find out here...

If I hand someone who is being rude a great verbal smackdown in one thread, it doesn’t carry over to anything else. That guy can dig his heels in and be a shithead for 20 pages, and as long as he doesn’t break the rules, there is absolutely no downside for him. No one is going to go chasing him into every other thread to explain that his conduct is shitty because that is against the rules (harassment, ad hominem) and it drives other threads off-topic. If a single but meaningless negative consequence isolated in one specific thread were enough, you guys would not need infractions, you could just tell people to behave and all would be well.

There is no downside to me going into one of the prayer-request threads and mocking people’s religion as long as I do it in a way that doesn’t cross the line of the forum rules. If I get verbally beat down, I can ignore it, it doesn’t harm me as there are no punitive or social consequences. That long line of red squares, however, is a very clear and visual mark against my conduct that people notice and respond to. So what happens when I start to mock the religious here without breaking the rules and with no real social penalties for the membership at large to enforce? Well obviously you’ll tighten the rules down or outlaw religious discussion entirely. This is the path you’ve chosen.

[King 5.45]

There is no downside to me going into one of the prayer-request threads and mocking people’s religion as long as I do it in a way that doesn’t cross the line of the forum rules. If I get verbally beat down, I can ignore it, it doesn’t harm me as there are no punitive or social consequences. That long line of red squares, however, is a very clear and visual mark against my conduct that people notice and respond to. So what happens when I start to mock the religious here without breaking the rules and with no real social penalties for the membership at large to enforce? Well obviously you’ll tighten the rules down or outlaw religious discussion entirely. This is the path you’ve chosen.

This is something that I can relate to strongly.

[RocketFoot]

I have a serious, straightforward question.

Does this post (#4) warrant a report?
http://forum.pafoa.org/hunting-23/81...ml#post1005926

Report was warranted...PM sent

[RocketFoot]

If I hand someone who is being rude a great verbal smackdown in one thread, it doesn’t carry over to anything else. That guy can dig his heels in and be a shithead for 20 pages, and as long as he doesn’t break the rules, there is absolutely no downside for him. No one is going to go chasing him into every other thread to explain that his conduct is shitty because that is against the rules (harassment, ad hominem) and it drives other threads off-topic. If a single but meaningless negative consequence isolated in one specific thread were enough, you guys would not need infractions, you could just tell people to behave and all would be well.

There is no downside to me going into one of the prayer-request threads and mocking people’s religion as long as I do it in a way that doesn’t cross the line of the forum rules. If I get verbally beat down, I can ignore it, it doesn’t harm me as there are no punitive or social consequences. That long line of red squares, however, is a very clear and visual mark against my conduct that people notice and respond to. So what happens when I start to mock the religious here without breaking the rules and with no real social penalties for the membership at large to enforce? Well obviously you’ll tighten the rules down or outlaw religious discussion entirely. This is the path you’ve chosen.

This is somewhat true...but, speaking theoretically of course...eventually you could/would cross the trolling line and be permabanned. Trolling can be a pretty broad area and not always black and white. If we identify a member as instigating or trolling...a simple staff majority vote can result in an instant ban. Shouldn't knowing this also be a deterrent for poor behavior despite the absence of little red boxes?

[FNG19]

I view neg rep more as a power that forum members shouldn't have to begin with.

Here's another view: Mods are the referees, not cops. They're there to ensure the game gets played according to the rules, but otherwise stay out of it. If someone plays a good game, they get a smack on the helmet. If they play a bad game, they get shoved around. If that shoving gets too out of control, the refs break it up. Otherwise, the game continues according to the agreed-upon rules.

And really, Neg Rep isn't "power". What power can I possibly exert individually by negrepping someone? None. Nothing. Nada. If my negrep, with its unfailingly polite but pointed description of the wrongdoing, is going to make someone whine, well, I can't stop that. For the record, I don't believe I've ever negrepped someone, though I've come close a few times.

Not to be condescending or anything, but moderating members should be left to the mods. Members are all peers and should not be able to moderate each other. This is why so many tempers have flared over such neg rep issues between members.

I think that's a real misconception. Pos/Neg Rep is not about moderating. It's about feedback. Day-to-day, there are lots of feedback mechanisms we all employ against each other, some of which are verbal, some of which are non-verbal. Some are positive feedback mechanisms, some are negative feedback mechanisms.