Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Carrying on private property.

    OK, so as it stands, this month's interpretation of the constitution of the right to keep and bear arms stands for your home. They can't infringe upon that. Carrying in public is a privilege (so they say).

    So...........what is it specifically? Could you conceal carry, open carry on your home property in your yard? This is legal right? What if you own a second piece of property that you own, but isn't your home? Can you carry there? As in PA if you don't have a LTCF, or lets say in MD, where you need one to carry in public.

    What about a store? A store isn't owned by the government, its owned by a store owner, a private entity. Is that considered public? Whats the difference who owns it? Where does this boundary exist?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Huh? That post is so confusing
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be construed as legal advice.

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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    OK, so as it stands, this month's interpretation of the constitution of the right to keep and bear arms stands for your home.
    So says the U.S. Supreme Court in their Heller decision, sort of, maybe.
    They can't infringe upon that.
    Ask the citizens of New York or New Jersey if they can just go out and purchase a firearm for their home.
    Carrying in public is a privilege (so they say).
    Depending on how it's carried.

    So...........what is it specifically? Could you conceal carry, open carry on your home property in your yard?
    In your yard you can carry concealed if you have an LTCF. You can open carry with or without an LTCF.
    This is legal, right?
    So says state law.
    You own a second piece of property that you own, but isn't your home? Can you carry there?
    In the yard, concealed, you need an LTCF. In the yard, open carried, you don't need an LTCF. Inside your place of abode (home home or vacation home) you can do whatever you want (and I won't ask).
    As in PA if you don't have a LTCF, or lets say in MD, where you need one to carry in public.
    Huh?

    What about a store? A store isn't owned by the government, it's owned by a store owner, a private entity. Is that considered public?
    Parts of the store are open to the public, as determined by its owner.
    What's the difference who owns it?
    If it's owned by a government entity, preemption may come into play. Otherwise, the owner's wishes reign supreme.
    Where does this boundary exist?
    At the property line.

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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    So says the U.S. Supreme Court in their Heller decision, sort of, maybe.Ask the citizens of New York or New Jersey if they can just go out and purchase a firearm for their home.Depending on how it's carried.

    In your yard you can carry concealed if you have an LTCF. You can open carry with or without an LTCF.So says state law.In the yard, concealed, you need an LTCF. In the yard, open carried, you don't need an LTCF. Inside your place of abode (home home or vacation home) you can do whatever you want (and I won't ask).Huh?

    Parts of the store are open to the public, as determined by its owner.If it's owned by a government entity, preemption may come into play. Otherwise, the owner's wishes reign supreme.At the property line.
    Man I'm glad you understood that cause when I read it I looked like this:



    Actually it was more like this:

    Last edited by dc dalton; November 28th, 2009 at 07:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    So if your in your own yard, on your property, and you don't have a LTCF, you can't carry your pistol in a IWB holster and have it concealed? What about in your house? ... are you sure about that?


    Pretty much everywhere you go and are is private. Only the road and government property, like a courthouse is public. Why is it we have all these stories of people being stopped and are given the 3rd degree. If private property is private property, and the owners have no objections, then la policia need to keep out.......right? A cop approaching you in a store is no different then approaching you on your second piece of land you own, isn't it? Its private property?

    QUOTE:"As in PA if you don't have a LTCF, or lets say in MD, where you need one to carry in public."

    You don't need a LTCF to carry openly, but you do concealed, in MD you need a permit to carry any which way. But I would imagine you can have a gun on your own property in MD, cant you? And open carry is legal to some extent, because you can hunt. I know, the state allows that. But thats what I'm saying, where is the boundary of public and private. Why can police do this? Is it because people simply yield to authority/cops and no one questions it? Because unless I'm missing a law (which is very possible), thats what it seems like is happening here.


    Just for instance, I was in the store the other day. A Blair County Deputy was in line in front of me. What if, when I went to get my wallet my shirt got pulled up, exposing my gun? And what if he saw that gun? And what if he was one of these bad cops we read about that is always violating peoples rights, or lets say he just one of the guys that even just simply asks if I have a LTCF? Where would even have the right to do that? If I were out mowing my grass and a cop saw there, would they ask me there too? Wouldn't it be the same? What if I wasnt on my property but someone elses private land. Not my land, but its theirs....would I be legal to carry there too? What about in MD?

    I'm trying to figure out what levels our laws exist both on state and federal level here and what rights we have (this month).
    Last edited by Franky4Fingers; November 28th, 2009 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    Man I'm glad you understood that cause when I read it I looked like this:



    Actually it was more like this:

    I'm like one of those photos towards your post....what was so hard to understand about what he wrote?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    So if your in your own yard, on your property, and you don't have a LTCF, you can't carry your pistol in a IWB holster and have it concealed? What about in your house? ... are you sure about that?
    Yes, you can carry your gun, concealed or not, in your own home.


    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    Pretty much everywhere you go and are is private. Only the road and government property, like a courthouse is public. Why is it we have all these stories of people being stopped and are given the 3rd degree. If private property is private property, and the owners have no objections, then la policia need to keep out.......right? A cop approaching you in a store is no different then approaching you on your second piece of land you own, isn't it? Its private property?
    No, it is different. You don't own the store. No objection doesn't = permission. The store owner probably doesn't know you are carrying. Businesses that object to patrons carrying firearms do not always inform the public by posting signs-or some other way. Also, the police are people too. They have only about a million laws to know, and they don't know them all. Which is why you'll read a lot of stories here, where people reference the flyers they carry with them that cite carry legislation and etc.

    Outside = in public, even if on private property. In PA, you may open carry(philly aside) in public. You need LTCF to conceal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    As in PA if you don't have a LTCF, or lets say in MD, where you need one to carry in public.

    You don't need a LTCF to carry openly, but you do concealed, in MD you need a permit to carry any which way. But I would imagine you can have a gun on your own property in MD, cant you? And open carry is legal to some extent, because you can hunt. I know, the state allows that. But thats what I'm saying, where is the boundary of public and private. Why can police do this? Is it because people simply yield to authority/cops and no one questions it? Because unless I'm missing a law (which is very possible), thats what it seems like is happening here.
    Open carry is not really legal in MD, to some extent, simply because one can hunt. That's like saying: "open carry is legal in maryland, because I can take my shotgun to the gunsmith, and carry it from my car in the parking lot to inside the shop. Those are special purposes, and would not fall under the general meaning of open carry. In fact, the state of MD recognizes this, and has made specific laws for the transportation/use of firearms in such manners.

    For all intents and purposes(obvious restricted places aside), the boundry between legal and illegal for concealed carry(without license) in PA is the front door of your home. For open carry, the boundry is just about anywhere you can walk-you can not open carry in a vehicle w/o license.
    For concealed or open carry(without permit) in MD, the boundry of legal/illegal is the confines of your home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    Just for instance, I was in the store the other day. A Blair County Deputy was in line in front of me. What if, when I went to get my wallet my shirt got pulled up, exposing my gun? And what if he saw that gun? And what if he was one of these bad cops we read about that is always violating peoples rights, or lets say he just one of the guys that even just simply asks if I have a LTCF? Where would even have the right to do that? If I were out mowing my grass and a cop saw there, would they ask me there too? Wouldn't it be the same? What if I wasnt on my property but someone elses private land. Not my land, but its theirs....would I be legal to carry there too? What about in MD?
    Let's let the "what ifs" go, and get to the point. The police have a right to ask you to see your LTCF ANYTIME they have reasonable suspicion that you are conceal carrying. So if you grab your wallet, and your shirt comes up, or if you are on your own property mowing your grass, picking your nose, or counting the birds in the tree, and a cop sees the gun under your shirt when you raise your arm to scratch your head and they see a gun, they can choose to ask you to see your LTCF. They can also choose to not ask you. That's where their judgement and training comes in. If

    If you are open carrying in PA, where it is legal to do so, then they can ask for your LTCF all they want, but you don't need one.

    Maryland, no permit = no carry, outside the home.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Quote Originally Posted by benc4liberty View Post
    Let's let the "what ifs" go, and get to the point. The police have a right to ask you to see your LTCF ANYTIME they have reasonable suspicion that you are conceal carrying.
    Nope. By your logic, they would then also have the right to demand your operator's license ANYTIME they see you entering, exiting, or sitting in the driver's seat of an automobile.
    Last edited by gnbrotz; November 28th, 2009 at 09:22 PM.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky4Fingers View Post
    I'm like one of those photos towards your post....what was so hard to understand about what he wrote?
    He didn't post those pictures because he couldn't understand what Statkowski wrote, he posted those pictures because we (both him and I) can't understand your initial post.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be construed as legal advice.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Carrying on private property.

    Quote Originally Posted by benc4liberty View Post
    For concealed or open carry(without permit) in MD, the boundry of legal/illegal is the confines of your home.
    I was wrong here. "It is unlawful for any person without a permit to wear or carry a handgun, openly or concealed, upon or about his person, or to knowingly transport a handgun in any vehicle traveling on public roads, highways, waterways or airways or upon roads or parking lots generally used by the public. This does not apply to any person wearing, carrying or transporting a handgun within the confines of real estate owned or leased by him, or on which he resided, or within the confines of a business establishment owned or leased by him."

    It is okay to carry on your property, even if outside.

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