Spirited OC discussion with Westmoreland Co. Sheriffs, UPDATE PG. 5

[renegadephoenix]

Yesterday i was working a booth at the PGCA gun show behind Westmoreland Mall. right beside our booth we had the County Sheriffs dept. booth. i'll keep it short and leave out some of the redundant talking points that we kept going over.
two months ago i had some issues with checking a firearm in at the county court house and as i was asking them about why i was hassled for not providing ID the discussion turned to why was i OCing in the first place.

I explained that it was more comfortable for me to carry open. i had a License to Carry a Firearm for when i travel in a vehicle or when i need to conceal carry. i told them i don't carry ID when i OC.

them: you were issued a License to Conceal a Firearm. when an officer asks for ID you Must provide photo ID that they ask for whether it be DL or LTCF.

i explainded that this isn't 1940 germany and i only need to verbally state my name if i so choose.

them: we can stop you and DETAIN YOU if you refuse to provide ID.

me: if i have not commited any crime, you can do no such thing, you can not stop or detain me for simply OCing. (handing him a gun rights flyer) Commonwealth vs. Hawkins and Commonwealth vs. Ortiz.

them: if we see you OCing, we will stop you and then call the sheriff and have him revoke your LTCF for causing "Public Durress".

Me: i guess you didn't have your 2009 MPOETC training yet or haven't gotten the memo on Hain vs. Lebanon Co.

them: conversation over, Cover it up!

me: no can do, go ahead and arrest me. (walk back over to my booth with ShawnL, Guymontag, Dagny). throughout the day the one deputy kept giving me this look of "now ya done it, and i have to hear about it when i get back to the office".

will be calling into the sheriff tomorrow when i have time.

Update Page 5

New Update page 6 see link below to go to post

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/790...ml#post1617265

[ReconLdr]

Yesterday i was working a booth at the PGCA gun show behind Westmoreland Mall. right beside our booth we had the County Sheriffs dept. booth. i'll keep it short and leave out some of the redundant talking points that we kept going over.
two months ago i had some issues with checking a firearm in at the county court house and as i was asking them about why i was hassled for not providing ID the discussion turned to why was i OCing in the first place.

I explained that it was more comfortable for me to carry open. i had a License to Carry a Firearm for when i travel in a vehicle or when i need to conceal carry. i told them i don't carry ID when i OC.

them: you were issued a License to Conceal a Firearm. when an officer asks for ID you Must provide photo ID that they ask for whether it be DL or LTCF.

i explainded that this isn't 1940 germany and i only need to verbally state my name if i so choose.

them: we can stop you and DETAIN YOU if you refuse to provide ID.

me: if i have not commited any crime, you can do no such thing, you can not stop or detain me for simply OCing. (handing him a gun rights flyer) Commonwealth vs. Hawkins and Commonwealth vs. Ortiz.

them: if we see you OCing, we will stop you and then call the sheriff and have him revoke your LTCF for causing "Public Durress".

Me: i guess you didn't have your 2009 MPOETC training yet or haven't gotten the memo on Hain vs. Lebanon Co.

them: conversation over, Cover it up!

me: no can do, go ahead and arrest me. (walk back over to my booth with ShawnL, Guymontag, Dagny). throughout the day the one deputy kept giving me this look of "now ya done it, and i have to hear about it when i get back to the office".

will be calling into the sheriff tomorrow when i have time.

You need to think of the children.
You are gonna ruin it for everybody.
If the BG sees your gun, he will attack you first.

[mjf]

Me: i guess you didn't have your 2009 MPOETC training yet or haven't gotten the memo on Hain vs. Lebanon Co.

You are most correct. Deputy Sheriffs, with the sole exception of Allegheny county, are not Act 120 certified, nor is their training board MPOETC. Sheriffs are trained by PCCD.

[4XLT]

their dept deff needs a call and some literature !!

[dc dalton]

You know, I find is absolutely AMAZING that after all the press, after all the lawsuits and after the training memo came out this year that any LE in this state can still be that unaware. I mean seriously WTF Chuck, are you dumb or just plain stupid (meaning the LE of course).

So where's this area and when do we decided to all meet for coffee where the sheriff department gets theres?

[Curmudgeon]

This may not seem funny to you, but I am laughing my ass off over here!

I've read a lot of your posts.

I've met you.

They are fucking with the wrong dude!

[tlgpa]

You know, I find is absolutely AMAZING that after all the press, after all the lawsuits and after the training memo came out this year that any LE in this state can still be that unaware. I mean seriously WTF Chuck, are you dumb or just plain stupid (meaning the LE of course).

That is amazing. But the OC training is kinda new stuff. What I find more disturbing is:

when an officer asks for ID you Must provide photo ID that they ask for whether it be DL or LTCF.

them: we can stop you and DETAIN YOU if you refuse to provide ID.

[TonyF]

I mean seriously WTF Chuck, are you dumb or just plain stupid (meaning the LE of course).

"Stupid is as stupid does" (meaning the LE of course).

ETA: There are employees in my department at work who take the initiative to learn the finer nuances of their job and there are others who don't. I see no reason why LE would be any different.

[GuyMontag]

It was kinda fun. One of them came over later explaining that the original officer that Chris talked to really knows his stuff. After repeating that about three times, Dagny chimed in with, "Yeah, he really knows his stuff until it comes to anything related to guns."

[Paradigm]

If the officer "really knows his stuff" then the fine folks of Westmoreland County are screwed...

I agree with DC. I cannot comprehend how there are still LEOs that ignorant out there. It's not like he diagreed with your choice to OC...he was flat-out wrong when it came to the law - on many points!

Print out the MPOETC training section on OC and drop it off. What clowns.