What if...

[RocketFoot]

What if Obama and Clinton were to get there way and ban all semi auto sporting rifles. Obviously there would be no new sales, but what about current owners? Would there be a giant gun grab or would current owners be allowed to keep their SASR's?

[Coustain]

How about instead of worrying about what will happen if they get elected, we worry about what we can do to ensure that they dont?

I was in middle school during the first AWB, so I do not know what happened that time, but I do know this: AWB2 will be the least of our worries if either of them get elected.

Can you say Universal Health Care?
Can you say Higher Taxes?
Can you say Socialism in a Can? Just add Commies?

[PA Rifleman]

What if Obama and Clinton were to get there way and ban all semi auto sporting rifles. Obviously there would be no new sales, but what about current owners? Would there be a giant gun grab or would current owners be allowed to keep their SASR's?

Hopefully ex post facto (details) should protect existing gun owners. There has been a continuing movement to undermine ex post facto (example), hopefully it will continue to remain intact. Maybe some of the genuine lawyers can comment on this.

Similar post, but pertaining to PA:
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/national-...8-what-if.html

In terms of threat analysis, the President has sweeping power over importation, but needs congressional support for domestic matters. This means Hillary/Obama could smite imported AKs, SKSs, Mosins, etc. off our shores & ports in one sweep without challenge.

To ban domestic guns would be another matter, but certainly not impossible. To stop US manufacture (AR-15s, Min-14s,AR-10s, M14-semi) they would be required to pass another prohibition bill similar to the 1994-2004 bill. This would require a Congressional majority to apoprove it.

How about ... we worry about what we can do to ensure that they dont?

Nice thought, but the window of opportunity has passed. The possibility for a Republican presidential victory in 2008 is only slightly greater than a Libertarian presidential victory. It's safe to assume the possibilities are Hillary or Obama, or possibly both if the primary loser becomes the VP. Due to the electoral college system (Constitution Article 2, sec. 1) , the biparty distribution of Congress generally determines the presidential elections.

[Coustain]

I have to beg your pardon on your assumption that a non-Democratic candidate is hopeless.

I beleive the main reason for the loss of the Congress to the democratic party was in part due to the populace's anger at the republican party for not bbeing true to its own values.

Everyone saw the Red/Blue state maps after the 2004 election. The vast majority of american voters, while not necessarily republican in registration, are conservative in values.

We (not myself, I am not suicidal in reguards to my rights) handed the democrats this last victory due to two reasons,

One- tired of being betrayed by the republican party on everything from the war to immigration reform.
Two- The democratic party ran a bunch of "Blue Dog" democrats, that ran on conservative values and in essence have betrayed the american people that elected them to be conservative in their votes.

Now I know it doesn't matter what the democrats values platform is when they are running for office, they are like every other politician in washington; they get there and get blinded by the power they have and the money flowing in and out of washington.

Anymore it's like the Republican and Democratic parties are the left and right hands on the same person taking us to hell in a handbasket. It's like both the parties are wanting the American people to fight amongst eachother in order to deflect what the politicians are really up to, stealing and squandering our rights.

[Broomhandle]

AWB2: I would sell the affected guns just prior to the ban going into effect. Sad to see them go but I support the government when they try to keep us safe. The criminal elements among us might try to cache their weapons and ammo, as many did at the beginning of the first AWB.

I used to be very active in the Pgh Libertarian chapter and worked on some local issues and campaign (Even ran for office) and my conclusion is that the only way to effect change is to organize to support candidates in the major party Primaries. This means giving up on third party registration or registering "independent", as this prevents you from having any presence in the process. Instead we need to organize as a block of voters, pick ONE SINGLE OFFICE, and then register under the banner of the party that had the lowest turnout for that primary office in the previous election cycle, and get our candidate into the general election. Some thought will have to be given to what additional support can be picked up from other voting blocks, but it would be on a case by case basis. Those of us not in that district can still help by handing out literature, holding fundraisers, and above all recruiting people we know to change registration and get out and vote.

We need to adopt the mantra that D vs. R is meaningless, they are written into the process by law and it is foolish to treat the label as having any significance. When people ask "why are you a D/R?", we always answer either "cause DanP is running and the only thing that matters is the person.", "well, you have register as one or the other to have ANY say in the process and this time the D/R's had the weaker candidates.", or (if it is a journalist asking the question) "I knew I had to be running as one or the other before the media would cover me, so I flipped a coin and it came up D!".

Basically we work to undermine, trivialize, subvert and hijack the parties the same way they have hijacked our Democracy. I don't have the time to do much (starting a family and all) but maybe there is a way to cross reference gun ownership (ie. club membership/NRA/GOA membership etc.) with turnouts for the last primaries for state office (we would need other issues to). Find cases where the first number is high and the last number is low and see what happens.

In the meantime, where did I put that cosmoline....

[MTechnik]

We need to adopt the mantra that D vs. R is meaningless, they are written into the process by law and it is foolish to treat the label as having any significance. When people ask "why are you a D/R?", we always answer either "cause DanP is running and the only thing that matters is the person.", "well, you have register as one or the other to have ANY say in the process and this time the D/R's had the weaker candidates.", or (if it is a journalist asking the question) "I knew I had to be running as one or the other before the media would cover me, so I flipped a coin and it came up D!".

Basically we work to undermine, trivialize, subvert and hijack the parties the same way they have hijacked our Democracy. I don't have the time to do much (starting a family and all) but maybe there is a way to cross reference gun ownership (ie. club membership/NRA/GOA membership etc.) with turnouts for the last primaries for state office (we would need other issues to). Find cases where the first number is high and the last number is low and see what happens.

In the meantime, where did I put that cosmoline....

Great stuff there.

Also, if they were grandfathered, and "pre-ban" I'd get as many serialized receivers for ARs as I can as an investment.

[RoyJackson]

Don't even think any "banned" firearms would be grandfathered.
They may...but I wouldn't put money on it.

[Kenshin]

What you need to do is buy lots of PVC piping, end caps, and caulk. Lot of vacuum packaging and get ready just in case.

But which ever one of those 2 gets elected to office will bring the downfall of this country. There is no doubt in my mind. Only question is can we stop it?

[crazyyankee]

Also take the fact that there are 80 million gun owners(this is only what I've heard, I can't prove it) in the USA. Now they say they can't round up 12 million illegal aliens so how will they round up the gun owners? Granted they know who and where we are, but I just remembered I sold that rifle on --/--/-- so I no longer have it... Pistols are a different story, I can see it now... if they ever decide to ban all guns... 80 million phone calls to the local PDs and all saying my weapons have been stolen...I think that will tie things up for a while...


This of course is in a worse case scenerio..