Registration of Guns

**buster2209** · October 18th, 2009, 04:49 PM

I'm green at this so bear with me;

My wife owns a handgun which was legally purchased in state of PA a few months ago.

In order for me to own the handgun, we have to do a transfer of ownership via a FFL dealer. I will have to have a PICS check done to ensure I am 'ok' to own firearms.

I think I am correct so far.

What I am curious about is that (as I have read many times on this forum) there is no gun registration in the state of Pa, yet the copy of the sp 4-113 my wife has for her gun clearly has the gun make, model and serial no on it........

Can someone clear this up for me??

**fingers80002** · October 18th, 2009, 04:52 PM

She can gift it to you, without any paperwork. If you are not a prohibited person.

PA has a "Sales Database", that they use, illegally, as a resgistery.

**uniballin** · October 18th, 2009, 04:54 PM

^ What he said.

**buster2209** · October 18th, 2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by fingers80002

She can gift it to you, without any paperwork. If you are not a prohibited person.

Can you explain how that is done please?

Originally Posted by fingers80002

PA has a "Sales Database", that they use, illegally, as a resgistery.

Hmm, how does that fly in a court of law??

**lildobe** · October 18th, 2009, 05:00 PM

While there is no "Registry" in Pennsylvania (as such is prohibited by 18 Pa.C.S. §6111.4) the Pa State Police does keep a database of CERTAIN handgun transfers.

However! Since you are receiving a handgun from your WIFE, no FFL and no paperwork is required:

Originally Posted by 18 Pa.C.S. §6111 (Sale or transfer of firearms.)

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed
importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or
transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only
upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer,
dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall
follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the
seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not
apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a
parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and
grandchild.

In other words, she can hand you the gun and say "It's yours now" and it shall be.

**ungawa** · October 18th, 2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by buster2209

Can you explain how that is done please?

She hands it to you an says, "It's yours."

It is now yours. Just to be sure, have her wave some bones and chant a bit.

**fingers80002** · October 18th, 2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by buster2209

Can you explain how that is done please?

Hmm, how does that fly in a court of law??

She hands it to you and says here, I want you to have this.

No has been successful in trying it.

**lildobe** · October 18th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by buster2209

Can you explain how that is done please?

See my reply above...

Originally Posted by buster2209

Hmm, how does that fly in a court of law??

The Pa Supreme Court ruled (Allegheny County Sportsmen's League v. Rendell, 580 Pa. 149, 860 A.2d 10, 22, n.7 (Pa. 2004)) that because the sales database isn't a complete listing of all 'firearms' in the sate, it is not a registry.

For example, it doesn't contain guns legally gifted under 18 Pa.C.S. §6111(c), guns brought into the state by their owners when they moved, guns purchased before the database was enacted or guns owned by an FFL that have not yet been sold.

**buster2209** · October 18th, 2009, 05:09 PM

Thank you lildobe for posting the law, my wife wouldn't believe me if I just told her.....

Originally Posted by ungawa

She hands it to you an says, "It's yours."

It is now yours. Just to be sure, have her wave some bones and chant a bit.

I'm new at this, not stupid......

Originally Posted by fingers80002

No has been successful in trying it.

So even though it is illegally used as a registration database, is it inadmissible in a court of law as evidence if a cop uses it?

What's the purpose of it then?

And I'm not thinking of committing of a crime, I just have a healthy distrust of governments, especially government databases

**lildobe** · October 18th, 2009, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by buster2209

Thank you lildobe for posting the law, my wife wouldn't believe me if I just told her....

No problem. It's what I'm here for.

So even though it is illegally used as a registration base, it is inadmissible in a court of law as evidence if a cop uses it?

What's the purpose of it then?

And I'm not thinking of committing of a crime, I just have a healthy distrust of governments, especially government databases

It's just one more way for the government to keep tabs on you - that's it's whole purpose.

Now, IIRC, that lawsuit that Pa Patriot, et all, have against Dickson City does include a challenge to the Sales Database, since it was used as an ownership registry in that case, but by search abilities are stifled by my lack of food...

Or some other BS excuse like that