Campus Carriers

[PA86]

So, for those who carry on PA campuses, or who know someone who does, or for those who just want to participate in this thought experiment....

Do you worry about being discovered by way of another unrelated campus incident?

I've been reading a few stories in recent days about some lockdowns on campuses where it appears students are screened individually as they exit their rooms/buildings and students unrelated to an incident have been busted for having knives, etc when assumedly searched exiting their buildings after a lockdown.



Also, as an aside, what legal power does a school have to keep you in a classroom or building, or on campus during a security alert?

[remingtonman]

Interesting question. I carry a pocket knife everyday of the week, if I have my pants/shorts on I have a Benchmade 556 with me. It is not "hidden" as it is clipped to the inside of my pocket and I have used it in front of campus police and PPD on multiple occassions without incident. I use it as an EDC blade, it's not a bowie knife or anything. If you were carrying and there was an incident that caused security checks/pat downs then you could be screwed. I would probably hit a bathroom and take it down into as many pieces as possible and scatter them in my bag. This scenario is excactly why I would never carry in a prohibited place.

[marinakorp]

This scenario is excactly why I would never carry in a prohibited place.

Last time I checked... college campuses were not "prohibited" places... private propery rules apply = yes... but not a prohibited place.

[remingtonman]

You are correct, I refer to my campus as a prohibited place because for me...it is. When people ask were you can and can't carry I do not include it unless they are a student.

[velkly]

They have the right to restrict what can be done on their property, but where do they get the legal power to perform a search on your person?

[Hokkmike]

Last time I checked... college campuses were not "prohibited" places... private propery rules apply = yes... but not a prohibited place.

Sadly, many schools (most I would say) post their own prohibitions. I am referring here to colleges and universities.

All HS in PA are "gun free" zones -with all the attendant debate!

[TaePo]

They have the right to restrict what can be done on their property, but where do they get the legal power to perform a search on your person?

I suppose it also falls on private property rights. In order to be licensed to be on the property, you agree to a possible search at any time of your person and objects/property. Otherwise, you do not meet the criteria to remain on the property and must leave. For a student, I think that also might be a trigger for expulsion or suspension by their 'rules' if denied the search.

IANAL.

[KMcL]

This is an interesting question. Like Rem, I carry a pocket knife everywhere I go. It's just a small Gerber paraframe, but I'm guessing if they really wanted to make an issue of it, they could. I don't carry my handgun while on campus, even though I'd like to. I can't risk getting kicked out of school for it.

I'm thinking if I was ever in the situation where there's a lockdown, I'm not going to play real well with the rules. I refuse to stay in one place and wait to see of someone's going to come shoot me. No thanks. I'll take my chances outside of a classroom. I fail to see how a door with a big window beside it is going to protect me if there really is an incident. If they want to attempt to expell me for not listening to what they believe is their order to stay put, well, the courts will have to sort that out. I don't see any way they can have any kind of authority over my actions to perserve my life and well being when they have no duty to protect it in the first place.

As far as the searches after a lockdown, I'm going to have to see something that gives them the right to do that before I allow that to happen. I can't see any legal reason for that to be ok, but I know how logic isn't always legal.


ETA - just read through my school's student handbook. In there it says in an emergency you must comply with orders from school officials or LEO's unless those orders would put you at harm. Guess that's up for interpretation. It also says you must consent to any search of your person or belongings. Damn that pisses me off. Why the hell do I have to give up so many of my rights to further my education? I can't carry while driving through the worst city in Pa to get to campus since I can't even have the gun locked in my vehicle on campus and I have to submit to searches whenever they deem appropriate. Then they'll try to teach about the importance of the constitution... right....

[unloved]

...and I have used it in front of campus police and PPD on multiple occassions without incident.

You might want to be careful doing that, or not do it all if you can avoid it. It doesn't seem to be aggressively enforced, but Philly does have an ordinance which prohibits all carry of knives outside of use in pursuit of a trade or words to that effect. I can't find the actual text right now, but it basically says you can only carry a knife if you need it for work, and then only while you're working.

The penalty is no less than 90 days imprisonment and a fine of no less than $300.00.

ETA: Found it.

§ 10-820. Cutting Weapons in Public Places. 189

     (1)     Definition.

          Cutting Weapon. Any knife or other cutting instrument which can be used as a weapon that has a cutting edge similar to that of a knife. No tool or instrument commonly or ordinarily used in a trade, profession or calling shall be considered a cutting weapon while actually being used in the active exercise of that trade, profession or calling.

     (2)     Prohibited Conduct. No person shall use or possess any cutting weapon upon the public streets or upon any public property at any time.

     (3)     Penalty. The penalty for violation of this Section shall be a fine of not less than three hundred (300) dollars and imprisonment of not less than ninety days.

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Pennsylvania/philadelphia_pa/title10regulationofindividualconductanda/chapter10-800safety?f=templates$fn=altmain-nf.htm$3.0#JD_Chapter10-800

[US Militiaman]

As has been mentioned above, it comes down to school rules...you don't have to submit to a search, but you will likely be expelled over it. Just like them finding a firearm on your person; you will never be welcome again, and they may try to hammer you on anything they can (DC, having a pocketknife, etc), but if it is not against the law they can't do anything except threaten defiant trespass if you ever come back.

I really wanted to carry on campus, but respected the fact that it was prohibited because there are so many freak ways that it can be discovered that I wasn't willing to take that risk. Instead, I opted for other means of defense that were not specifically prohibited by the rules. It is much less effective, but that combined with situational awareness was better than nothing.

ETA: I went to a residential college, so there was no need to go out on city streets all the time or drive to/from the campus every day. There were still dangers, and most school incidents happen with students, but there wasn't nearly as much interaction with non-students as exists at many campuses.