R700 Extractor chewing on brass

[xdfireguy]

So I took out a new Remington 700 (SPS Tactical) chambered in .223 for the first time yesterday. I noticed that when locking bolt down, it was a little tight. Figured that it was new and springs needed to be broken in a bit.

So I got it mostly sighted in, decided to throw a 5 shot group down just to see how consistent it was and I was happy with the results:



However, it became very apparent that the amount of force necessary to lower the bolt handle was excessive - at one point "gorilla excessive" needless to say I called it a day. Oh, and no problems ejecting. So I checked the chamber, bolt, and brass. The brass all show a notch cut out of the rim. It appears, from my untrained eye, that the extractor is being forced over the rim of the brass and removing the metal. Small brass shavings were found in the receiver and bolt.

Tried chambering something other than the FGMM that I was shooting and had the same results. Cleaned the bolt, action, and chamber ... no changes.
Below are some crappy shots that might lend some idea of what I'm talking about. The only modifications made prior to taking it out was to add an EGW base and scope, and I'm trying out one of the mag extensions - issues with feeding so it may get dumped soon.

I know that it is under warranty but if there is an easy fix, I'd rather do it myself. This little one will be a fun one within 400 If I can only get this little problem squared away

[wheeling365]

It almost looks like the extractor is sticking on something. Can you take something that will not scratch up the bolt or extractor and actually move it? I am assuming its got to have spring pressure to allow it to slip over the casing rim. Its possible there is dirt or metal shavings or even a out of position spring causing it.

Unfortunately I can't tell you how to strip the bolt down to check this stuff out.

[Tomcat088]

I'm thinking the same thing wheeling, that there may be some debris or metal shavings behind the extractor. It's one of the few things that will keep the extractors from working right. I can tell you how to strip the bolt and extractor if you're interested, but it's getting it back together that can be a problem. The firing pin is under a LOT of tension.

Is the bolt difficult to lock down when there is not a round being chambered, or only when you are chambering a round? Is the bolt sticky or hard to open once the round has been fired, or only when closing? Are there any other pressure signs on the brass like flattened primers, marks on the brass from the bolt face, etc? Sometimes SPS chambers have been sent out slightly out of spec and they result in what you're talking about. There are also a few instances where people's rifles were slightly shaving brass, and the brass collected behind the extractor. Hopefully we can get this figured out, but it sounds to me like the extractor is moving how it's supposed to, possibly because of an obstruction and therefore marking the brass.


Edit: One other thing, and I can't tell because I can't see the rest of the brass. Is the brass slightly out of shape, or have you measured it? Sometimes out of spec chambers result in "egg" shaped brass, it's not concentric. The other thing that I'm curious about is this, was it tight before you were chambering rounds? The screw holes go all the way through the action, and sometimes when people mount screws, they're too long. As a result, the bullets or brass will sometimes snag up on the screws that are hanging down into the action. You may want to look at this, or if nothing else, remove the scope (I know, it sucks), and see if it's still hard to chamber a round. If not, the bullets may be snagging up, and wedging the brass in the extractor, and doing some ther funny things. It might help to turn the brass all over on the rest of it and look for other scratches or marks. See what you can find it, and hope that helps.

[xdfireguy]

Didn't think to pull the extractor itself. If I pull the pin assembly, the only thing under tension should be the ejector pin, right? I had better get my hands on a spare extractor first, just in case.

With regards to your questions tomcat:

"Is the bolt difficult to lock down when there is not a round being chambered, or only when you are chambering a round?" Only when chambering, no resistance when closing on an empty chamber.

"Is the bolt sticky or hard to open once the round has been fired, or only when closing?" Only when closing

"Are there any other pressure signs on the brass like flattened primers, marks on the brass from the bolt face, etc?" None that I noticed, but will check again.

"Edit: One other thing, and I can't tell because I can't see the rest of the brass. Is the brass slightly out of shape, or have you measured it?" I have not, but will check. I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. But I wasn't looking for it specifically either.

"The other thing that I'm curious about is this, was it tight before you were chambering rounds?" I never loaded it prior to mounting the scope. I worked the bolt quite a few times and empty there is no change

I appreciate the help you two. I think I will pull the bolt apart first to see if it is an easy cleanup. If it ends up being more than that, the scope needs to come off anyway to get it back to be repaired under warranty. So I'll double check at that time.

[Tomcat088]

So you're saying if the chamber is empty, it's not difficult to close? Is that correct? If it's still difficult to close without a round chambering, then it's definitely not an extractor issue. In regards to the "tension" question, it depends on how you're going to break down the bolt. If you unscrew the bolt shround, the actual firing pin is under tension. If you want to change the firing pin, firing pin spring, or bolt shroud, you have to take the tension off of the firing pin and it's a LOT. Believe it or not, the tension on the firing pin affects the amount of force it takes to open the bolt, because you're cocking the firing pin. You won't have to remove the firing pin/bolt shroud assembly, but just so you know, when you do remove them, it keeps the tension on the pin and won't just fly apart. But if you want to chnage any of that assembly, you have to take the tension out of that spring and put it back in when you put it back together (the hard part). Since your problem is with lowering the bolt handle, you won't even have to unscrew the bolt shroud. The ejector is under spring tension, and that's what will come out if you drift out the pin.

I have actually never pulled an extractor, because I've never had one fail. My gunsmith has, and he was telling me how to change them. I also found a youtube video from a guy off of the hide that I'm sure knows what he's talking about, so I figured I'd post it up here. Pretty much the consensus is that if you pull an ejector, replace it, or if you have a bolt painted, replace the ejector. Here's the video and I hope it helps, but realize that before you pull yours, you probably want to buy a replacement. You could also try washing out the bolt face area around the firing pin with a solvent. Many peope like to clean out triggers with lighter fluid because it breaks down the powder. IF it was some type of powder or oil/dust residue, it might help get it out. Here's that video >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jG-rkGjc_k . Let me know if I can help in any other ways, and take a look at the rest of the brass when you get a chance.

[xdfireguy]

Yes, it feels relatively smooth (new still, so "normal" may be a more appropriate descriptor) on an empty chamber.

[Tomcat088]

ok, that's good. Have you watching it strip a round and see if it's snagging on the feed ramp or anything? I'm guessing that you probably fill up the magazine and then let it strip the first round of of the magazine? Have you tried just dropping and seeing if it chambers the same way? Or starting one partially in the chamber and finish closing the bolt on it? I'm just trying to think of some ways to see if it's binding on something like the feedramp or some screws that are too long for the scope bases, or if it's a chamber problem.

Edit: PLEASE PLEASE be careful as you do this, or if you have snap caps, it might be best to do it with that. You can place your rifle on safety and should still be able to open the bolt on the new remmy's. Also be mindful of your fingers, I've seen lots of people slam a bolt down and get a pinky or finger in the trigger guard and have an AD as soon as they close the bolt. PLEASE be careful.

[MaxPower]

are these factory rounds or reloads? almost sounds like a headspace problem... any thing else look out of the ordinarly w/ those fired cases? Measured any for out of spec dimensions? You should be able to move the extractor by pushing on it w/ a case rim to see if it moves. It should be a little stiff but not overly so....

edit-never mind, saw you were shooting FGMM. so the extractor should be first variable to look at...

...then the ejector. Can you rock an empty cartridge back and forth on the bolt face easily?

[Tomcat088]

are these factory rounds or reloads? almost sounds like a headspace problem... any thing else look out of the ordinarly w/ those fired cases? Measured any for out of spec dimensions? You should be able to move the extractor by pushing on it w/ a case rim to see if it moves. It should be a little stiff but not overly so....

edit-never mind, saw you were shooting FGMM. so the extractor should be first variable to look at...

...then the ejector. Can you rock an empty cartridge back and forth on the bolt face easily?

I thought the same thing, sounds like possibly a headspace problem or the bullet snagging on something as it feeds. Then I also saw that he was hooting FGMM and though, man it could be an out of spec chamber. I really hope that it's not, because that would be a downer. I thought it could be the ejector as well, but figured we should check the extractor first. Thanks for the help Maxpower.

[xdfireguy]

Brass seems to be within normal tolerances. Not ovaled at all. I needed to order a few things anyway, so I've got a new extractor on it's way.

I pulled the FP assembly, ejector and spring. Then rotated the extractor around, blasting it with action cleaner as it went, in hopes that if there was something behind in or under it, that it would just fall through the hole. But no such luck.

Going to give Remington a call regardless, I would be interested in how their Customer Service is. If they'll fix it with no cost (shipping included) to me, then I have a spare extractor that I spent a whopping $9 on.

If it is a headspace problem, should I be able to tell with a no-go gage? Not that I have one, but I can always ask around.