Okay, now I get it ... Liberal, Conservative, they are all the same damn thing

[dc dalton]

I always said I would be the first to beat the shit out of Obama when I saw some solid evidence of screw ups, outright lies or 'more of the same' and today I found a doozy.

Seems this administration, just as the last has decided to say screw it to freedom, the burden of proof and habeas corpus. They have decided (a BIG campaign thing for him) that those held at Guantanamo will STILL be held indefinitely under their own rules and ignoring what they promised and what we all know is bullshit.

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/oba...-indefinitely/

We have also now seen that he, just like Bush, will 'work around' the laws, and the congress and of course around the constitution.

Yup, it's politics as usual in Washington and I for one am getting god damned sick of it.

[mikey]

...............

[Skeptic]

Liberal Progressive and Conservative Progressive are just different justifications to do basically the same sets of things, with perhaps a different emphasis.

I no more want a liberal progressive banning Huck Finn or telling me I can't own a pickup truck than I want a conservative progressive banning Horrorcore Rap or telling me I can't wear baggy pants.

I don't need a warning label to give me the OK to tell my children that what they are listening to is pure unadulterated crap, or to instill in them a decision making process that leads to better personal values decisions.

They are both just about "getting things done" for their conception of "the common good", rule of law be damned. Not all Republicans, nor even all Democrats are that way. But the party doesn't matter to me anymore. Principles and how they support them do.

Look to Jeanmarie Devolites Davis down in Virginia. VCDL helped knock off that RINO, and she was replaced by a more pro gun Democrat. In fact, more pro gun stuff got done last year than in most previous Republican controlled VA Senates.

[kunsunoke]

Really, what should have happened with most of the Gitmo detainees was military tribunals, followed by either execution, prison sentences, or release. Those never occurred, and the detainees (most of whom are pieces of shit) subsequently fell into a political limbo.

Club Gitmo was great for Obama to cite as a travesty of justice when he was campaigning but not so good after he got elected. Because after he got elected, in order to do what he promised he'd also have to take political responsibility for what the Gitmo dirbags did when about 25% of them were (inevitably) sprung. Much easier to avoid that particular shock to his political world by playing politics and doing nothing instead. (More evidence - McCrystal's recent call for more troops in Afghanistan and BHO's non-response.)

My guess is that Obama thought people were so enamored and charmed by him that they wouldn't notice him breaking another campaign promise. Used to work for Bill Clinton. Probably works for certain of his supporters even now.

There were a number of us on the Conservative side who had problems with George W. Bush when he took action against liberty. Most of us loathed (and continue to loathe) John McCain, but we knew what Obama was about (inexperienced, pompous, with a tendency to self-aggrandize - never a good combination), and we knew what was coming when he got elected. So we naturally don't buy into his bullshit.

Sad truth is this particular POTUS has other parts of the constitution he doesn't care for - such as the Second and the Tenth Amendments in particular. Doesn't much care for the First either, come to think of it. No big surprise, though, since, from a political standpoint, he's only slightly to the right of an exhumed Leon Trotsky.

So you'll have to watch your back, too.

[dc dalton]

So does this mean you are through voting Democrat or Republican?

I know I am!!

I've been done with that for years .... somehow SOMEWAY we need a viable third party (if not more) in this country ... this stranglehold the Dems and Reps have has GOT to end!

[mikey]

..................

[Al-Mumit]

Liberal, Conservative, they are all the same damn thing

Exactly. None of it means anything, the underlaying system our society is based upon will never change in the slightest in the 'struggle' between the 2 sides of the same coin we are given the choice between.

[kunsunoke]

This really isn't about liberal vs. conservative. It's more DNC vs. RNC, reflecting the pervading viewpoints inside the Beltway, neither of which really reflect the core philosophies of the electorate.

The core philosophies of the parties right now are as follows:

• DNC - Leadership embraces socialism bordering on fascism (which never works); base is left-wing centrist to hard-core bolshevik
  
• RNC - Thanks in part to GWB and Sid McNasty the leadership is into Big Government/Big Tent Centrism (which never works); base is libertarian/conservative; with some prominent conservatives left over after the 2006 bloodletting.

USA Electorate as a whole right now - Libertarian/Conservative

What this all means is the American people want their government to curb its excesses and get the fuck out of their lives as much as possible. They also expect that the people they hire to represent them care as much about the US Constitution AS IT IS WRITTEN as they do.

The only reason the RNC has a chance right now is because of the fuck-ups of our current POTUS. The electorate (and in particular the "independents") have seen what this guy proposes and have said "do not want". The indys feel betrayed - they were expecting BHO to curb the excesses of the Bush Administration, only to find out that BHO was at least an order of magnitude worse, in every way (which, of course, we in the conservative movement were expecting from him).

The RNC is making a mistake, though, if it thinks the electorate wants Democrat-lite.

[Ozone]

The thing that really pisses me off the most is, we elect people who got money, to make decisions for us. The cost of living is through the roof, and they are pricing my generation, and the generation behind me, out of the spectrum.

We are now asking kids coming out of college to pay their $30,000 - $100,000 student loans, plus buy a house, and all the other expenses they have, and do it by making $35,000 to $40,000 a year. No wonder why some of these people can't afford healthcare.

My father tells me all the time, that things in this country USED to be affordable.

That's just one of many things, that irks me about the types of people we vote for.

[PocketProtector]

This really isn't about liberal vs. conservative. It's more DNC vs. RNC, reflecting the pervading viewpoints inside the Beltway, neither of which really reflect the core philosophies of the electorate.

The core philosophies of the parties right now are as follows:

• DNC - Leadership embraces socialism bordering on fascism (which never works); base is left-wing centrist to hard-core bolshevik
  
• RNC - Thanks in part to GWB and Sid McNasty the leadership is into Big Government/Big Tent Centrism (which never works); base is libertarian/conservative; with some prominent conservatives left over after the 2006 bloodletting.

USA Electorate as a whole right now - Libertarian/Conservative

What this all means is the American people want their government to curb its excesses and get the fuck out of their lives as much as possible. They also expect that the people they hire to represent them care as much about the US Constitution AS IT IS WRITTEN as they do.

The only reason the RNC has a chance right now is because of the fuck-ups of our current POTUS. The electorate (and in particular the "independents") have seen what this guy proposes and have said "do not want". The indys feel betrayed - they were expecting BHO to curb the excesses of the Bush Administration, only to find out that BHO was at least an order of magnitude worse, in every way (which, of course, we in the conservative movement were expecting from him).

The RNC is making a mistake, though, if it thinks the electorate wants Democrat-lite.

Exactly right, would rep but button is broke.
The Liberal Politicians in the DNC are now so far left of the average Democrat as to not even be the same species. They are a clear and present danger to America.
The RNC Politicians are as kunsunoke said, Liberal lite, and are spineless weasels that share equally in the giant redistribution campaigns.

The kook left has to go. The DNC will never go back to Constitutional principals, they loathe it. Best anyone can hope for is moving back to the center a little but that will take several generations since they are so entrenched with Marxists. I don't think it would ever happen.
The RNC has to get back to Constitutional principals.
A third party, though it sounds exciting would only benefit the left. They would skim voters from the right but the left will vote as one bloc as they nearly always do, think Ross Perot, he gave us Slick Willie. 42% of the vote ...won.
And America CANNOT exist as we know it if the left stays in power in 2010 & 2012. It would be F#%!ed.