How should this transaction be completed

[dbdbdb]

I'm selling a rifle to an out of state buyer, but the buyer's family lives in PA. He lives in VA.

1. could the buyer come to PA and we complete the transaction at the PA dealers place of business?
2. If shipped, doesn't it have to be from my PA. FFL dealer to his VA. FFL dealer?

Thanks for your help.

[aubie515]

Just ship the firearm to the VA FFL that the buyer specifies. If you are planning on shipping the item versus using your FFL dealer...make sure the VA FFL dealer accepts firearms from non ffl holders.

I will give you an example. This is Seneca Arms policy....I am buying a russian pistol from Mr. X in WI. I go to John and get a signed copy of John's FFL license....I can either mail or fax the FFL to the seller in WI. John accepts firearms from non dealers like Mr. X...John however requires Mr. X to print a copy of his driver's license...so when John is logging in the serial number from the russian pistol...that he has a way to reach Mr. X if there's something shady going on.

The process is quite simple...at times the "hardest" part is to find an FFL dealer that will accept your firearm...shipped directly from you.

[dbdbdb]

Thanks aubie515,

Very helpful information.

I've dealt with the same dealer for years and he's the only guy I would buy any firearms from. I completed a transaction through him before and it was painless. I was just curious about the on-site transaction and how it would go.

Also, to comment on what you stated. I've never heard of a dealer that would accept a firearm from anyone without FFL interaction. Because of the legal issues and to a large degree I don't blame them at all. Also, there are many dealer's that won't let anyone they aren't fully familiar with have access to their FFL license, again I don't blame them.

Thanks again.

[aubie515]

When I lived in Harrisburg, I used a FFL dealer in Pine Grove...I would go into his shop and he would give me 10 copies of his license...because I would buy that much and use him for the transfer. He only charged $10 a transfer.

I wouldn't say a lot of FFL dealers won't accept from non license holders...it depends on where you live...I think it all boils down to $$ and CYA. But if you have the seller's driver's license...the gov can track the seller, if the firearm is found to be stolen. Which would mean it would be a federal crime.

[Matt]

OOPS. I mistakenly assumed the out of State exemption for rifles/shotguns, so long as both State's laws are complied with, also applied to private sales.

ADMIN NOTE: THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA AS IT IS ILLEGAL.

[aubie515]

Matt,

I would not advise you to give that sort of advice...because if the ATF were to hear that you did that...you would be breaking the law. Perhaps you should learn the law before you advise others to break the law. You do what you think you should do, but you are not suppose to sell to a resident of another state and do a FTF transaction. Is going to Federal Prison worth saving $20 on a transfer and another $20 to ship the item to an out of state FFL Dealer? IMO, you are not helping gun owners by offering bad advice.

Do the math...

[dbdbdb]

If the guy comes to PA and meets you I'm pretty sure you can just sell him the rifle without involving a FFL. Check VA law but I doubt it'll be a problem.

ADMIN NOTE: THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA AS IT IS ILLEGAL.

I totally agree, this is definately NOT a good idea for anyone to follow. Always go through a FFL dealer for any firearms transactions.

CYA at all times.

[JayBell]

Always remember, when going across state lines, you MUST use a FFL at the receiving end...not to do so is a FELONY.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[dbdbdb]

I'm looking for some feedback on this guys.

Real Life Scenario:

1. I sold my rifle to a guy in WV.
2. He took care of the shipping from my FFL dealer to his dealer with his Fedex account. I took care of the FFL fee on the PA. side.
3. He had it delivered ground, without insurance and without signature required.
4. Fedex delivered\left the rifle at the front door of the business at 7:10 PM. four days later.

Your thoughts please!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll start off with my thoughts:

I don't know if this guy is going to get this rifle or not, but I am washing my hands of the whole matter. WHY? Because IMHO, the rifle should have been shipped overnight, with insurance & signature required upon delivery.

Question: Am I too careful or would you have shipped the same way this guy did ????????

[aubie515]

I believe that UPS and FedEx require non FFL dealers to ship a firearm over night. Don't hold me to that, but I'm pretty sure that's their policy. I'm not sure why it took 4 days to arrive from PA to WV, but hey I suppose anything is possible. The part I don't understand is...if you were the seller...why didn't you take care of the shipping? It would make more sense for you to include shipping in your asking price. If he paid for the FedEx on his account...you know darn well you didn't mention to FedEx that the package was a firearm.