PA CCW on College Campuses

[Legionnaire]

The following was posted on the Legal forum over at THR:

If my research is correct, CCW is legal on college campuses in Pennsylvania, but I just wanted to post here to see if anybody knows otherwise. I know that colleges can punish students and staff based on their own regulations, but I'm visiting a college (and have an out of state PA CCW permit) and want to know if I'm able to carry while doing so.

My response:

It is my understanding that you would be "legal" in PA. But if CCW is prohibited by university policy, I assume that--if they determined you were carrying--they would have the right to ask you to leave the campus. I would further assume you could be charged with trespass if you refused to leave.

Any lawyers have a definitive answer?

[thatJeffguy]

That's how I see it. Buy an IWB, get some decent pants and a smaller framed pistol and rock out with your Glock.... hidden.

[Mike]

It is not unlawful for students to carry guns on state college campuses In Pennsylvania or most states. However, the status of implied state law preemption of colleges is unclear except in Utah, especially as to students and staff, and visitors in the non-public areas of the college campus.

However, colleges which are created and controlled by a pennsylvania locality would be generally preempted from establishing firearm carry bans by the Uniform Firearms Act at Section 6120. As the Commonwealth Court recently ruled, "[o]ur review of the [Community College] Act, both here and in Seibert, leads us to conclude that a community college is not an instrumentality of the Commonwealth, but rather is "the creature and representative of the sponsor which created it." Wills v. Toole, 61 D. & C.2d 473, 475 (C.P. Luzerne 1972). As such, it is more properly classified as a local agency and, while it may be entitled to an exemption where its property is actually used for a public purpose, it cannot claim the "blanket" immunity of the Commonwealth itself or an instrumentality thereof." Bucks County Cmty. College v. Bucks County Bd. of Assessment Appeals, 147 Pa. Commw. 505, 512 (Pa. Commw. Ct. 1992).

Whether a student or staff member could prevail in challeging adverse administrative action against them by a local community college for mere lawful gun carry is unresolved, but certainly you have a better chance than if you were part of a state college community.

[eXceLon]

My fear would be that since it is generally known that universities prohibit carrying on their property, that you could be charged with 'defiant trespass' without having them first ask you leave and disobeying the request.

Since you knew you were defying their rules when you set foot in campus. I suppose you could argue ignorance in court, but who knows if the judge and jury would buy it.

[jcabin]

My fear would be that since it is generally known that universities prohibit carrying on their property, that you could be charged with 'defiant trespass' without having them first ask you leave and disobeying the request.

Since you knew you were defying their rules when you set foot in campus. I suppose you could argue ignorance in court, but who knows if the judge and jury would buy it.

No thats BS. They need to make a personal conveyance to you, that you are not wanted to carry on campus. At which point you must leave, or face criminal trespass charges.

I've been to quite a few college campuses, and I have NEVER seen a "no guns" sign anywhere on any campus. Maybe they are posted? I don't know, but since signs don't hold much weight in PA, it's unreasonable to think someone would find one small sign on one or two randomly placed around a campus, and then hold them to it.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

If every college is similar to Temple University - and I'm guessing they are - they probably have a little section somewhere in some document saying that weapons aren't allowed to be possessed by anyone on campus. Of course, you could plead ignorance, but I doubt you'd get much compassion. Weigh the costs and benefits; the risk v. reward of carrying at your campus.

[jcabin]

If every college is similar to Temple University - and I'm guessing they are - they probably have a little section somewhere in some document saying that weapons aren't allowed to be possessed by anyone on campus. Of course, you could plead ignorance, but I doubt you'd get much compassion. Weigh the costs and benefits; the risk v. reward of carrying at your campus.

He's not a student, thus he wouldn't have a copy of the rules and regulations handbook. Which AFAIK the students aren't even required to read. He's just a legally carrying citizen who's going to be spending time on campus. There is nothing the administration can do except ask him to leave, if he is found to be carrying. I suggest getting a pocket gun.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

He's not a student, thus he wouldn't have a copy of the rules and regulations handbook. Which AFAIK the students aren't even required to read. He's just a legally carrying citizen who's going to be spending time on campus. There is nothing the administration can do except ask him to leave, if he is found to be carrying. I suggest getting a pocket gun.

Hell, if that's the case then it's a non-issue. Carry like you'd carry anywhere else...though OC at your discretion (peril?).

[jcabin]

Hell, if that's the case then it's a non-issue. Carry like you'd carry anywhere else...though OC at your discretion (peril?).

I would advise 100% against OC on college campus, especially if you're a student. I know I've seen someone post once or twice they've open carried at Temple, but they were at that point alumni and had nothing to lose.

[ksig1869]

My fear would be that since it is generally known that universities prohibit carrying on their property, that you could be charged with 'defiant trespass' without having them first ask you leave and disobeying the request.

Since you knew you were defying their rules when you set foot in campus. I suppose you could argue ignorance in court, but who knows if the judge and jury would buy it.

I don't think that you could be charged with "defiant trespass" because if you were a student and you knowingly broke policy, first they would have to catch you doing so then deal with it internally such as ask you to stop and/ or kick you out of the school. If you did it again after they kicked you out of school or told you to rethink your actions then I think they would have criminal case against you. Not a lawyer but that just sounds more reasonable to me.