What shoots flatter ?

[mrnyman]

What shoots flatter out to 250 yards, 22-250 or .243?

Trying to nail a all-purpose Gun/Round.
I found plenty of trajectory charts for the 22-250 but nothing yet on the .243.

Thanks, Nyman

[Pizza Bob]

The answer to your question will be dependent on the bullet weight of the two calibers involved, and you are already on the right track by checking ballistic tables, so I won't duplicate your efforts - continue.

However, your stipulation that you are looking for an "all-purpose" round mitigates in favor of the .243. I know that there will be a ton of people that will tell you that they've taken all their deer with a .22-250. Just because you can do or have done something doesn't necessarily make it the right choice. The .243 shoots well with a variety of bullet weights that cover both varmints as well as white tail. You are limiting yourself with the .22-250 - it's a great varmint round, but in my opinion, it's lacking as a white tail round. Just my $.02.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[Pete D.]

Kind of apples and oranges since the range of bullet weights for each cartridge is quite different.
The Speer manual shows the heaviest bullet for the 22-250 as a 70 grain spitzer. 70 grains is the lightest bullet that they show for the .243.
That being said - using the 70 grain bullet in the .243 will get you a couple of hundred fps over the .22-250.
The differences mid-range for a 250 yard zero are small. At 3300 fps. the .224/70 grain bullet will have a midrange trajectory that is a tad over three inches high. For the same weight bullet out of the .243 at 3500 fps, the MR trajectory is 2.29" high.
I checked this data with two different ballistics programs. They agree to within one decimal place.
The total inch drop from the muzzle was 10.78" for the .243 and 13.13" for the .22-250.
Pete

[GuyMontag]

For this you have to ignore the mass of the bullet though. When talking about guns and trajectories you have to include all factors, but if you just ask which has a flatter trajectory, it's purely which is moving faster.

Gravity acts on objects of different masses equally. So, if you remember the little experiment in school where you dropped the bowling ball and ping pong ball, they both hit the ground at the same time.

What you'd have to look at is which is in the air longer to have gravity act on it longer. So, the way I see it, if you can launch a .243 and a Buick and you can make the Buick go twice as fast, it will fall less as it's in the air for less time.

[Legion_Prime]

For this you have to ignore the mass of the bullet though. When talking about guns and trajectories you have to include all factors, but if you just ask which has a flatter trajectory, it's purely which is moving faster.

Gravity acts on objects of different masses equally. So, if you remember the little experiment in school where you dropped the bowling ball and ping pong ball, they both hit the ground at the same time.

What you'd have to look at is which is in the air longer to have gravity act on it longer. So, the way I see it, if you can launch a .243 and a Buick and you can make the Buick go twice as fast, it will fall less as it's in the air for less time.

If I recall correctly that experiment we did in school was conducted in a vacuum. You also need to take the ballistic coefficient of the projectile in consideration. You can propel an umbrella and a javelin at the same speed and their trajectories will be dramatically different due to the differences in their BC.

[GuyMontag]

I disagree. Any drag on the bullet in its flight is going to have an effect on its velocity: It's going to slow it down. Being slowed, it allows gravity to work longer on pulling it toward the ground.

The differences between a .243 and .22 when talking about wind drag are minimal. It all has to do with velocity.

If I recall correctly that experiment we did in school was conducted in a vacuum. You also need to take the ballistic coefficient of the projectile in consideration. You can propel an umbrella and a javelin at the same speed and their trajectories will be dramatically different due to the differences in their BC.

[mrnyman]

Thanks guys, i see that the .243 has the advantage for deer size animals because it can carry a heavier bullet at the same speed of the 22-250 , while it can also take a light 70 grain bullet for varmints, excellent.

Thanks, Nyman

[Mr White]

If you reload, you can get 55 gr Noslers for .243 that you can load to almost 4000 fps. 58 gr VMaxs can load to ~3800 fps.

I think you've seen the light in that while .22-250 is, IMO a better pure varmint round, .243 is more versatile.

[Tomcat088]

Well, the answer to your question is the .22-250 is a flatter shooting caliber, PERIOD. You can compare the lightest to lightest and heaviest to heaviest, and the .22-250 will shoot a LOT flatter than the .243. So to answer your question, no the .243 is NOT the flatter shooting cartridge. It's not even close to a fair comparison to take the heaviest bullet the .22-250 can shoot and put it up against the lightest bullet the .243 can shoot; there's many more factors at stake. Either way, a bullet that can be shoot at 4,100+ (had reloads up and slightly beyond 4300 fps), is going to be flatter shooting than a heavier or same weight bullet moving only 3,200 fps.

NOW, does that fit your application for being the "best all around" cartridge. Not at all, in that case, I would give the .243 the nod. I still would not say the .243 is a flatter shooting cartridge. I love both of these cartridges, especially the .22-250 for varminting. With that said, I still think it's funny how many people say that the .22-250 is lacking as a deer killing cartridge; but these same people will talk about how effective of a deer killing cartridge the .30-30 is. I hear all the time on this board about how things are different in PA, and the .30-30 is one of best calibers in the woods to take deer, especially in brushy conditions.

I will NOT disagree with those people that the .30-30 is a great cartridge, will it go through brush, sure. Should you be shooting through brush anyway? NOPE, you shouldn't take that shot even if it seems like you can make it. I merely want to bring up the point that the .22-250 has almost the same amount of kinetic energy as the .30-30. I really don't feel like running the calculations right now under proper conditions and correct BC's, so I'm just going to link these 2 pages. You should take note that wikipedia's energy calcutions have come up with different answers than my 2 ballistic calculators (one very expensive one); but it's still typically proportional. This is the page for the .22-250 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22-250 . It shows a 55 grain bullet 3,786 fps has 1,751 foot pounds, and the 60 grain bullet at 3,580 has 1,708 foot pounds of energy. Here's the page for the .30-30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-30 . A 130 grain bullet at 2,496 fps has 1799 foot pounds of KE, while the BEST load they list for the .30-30 is the 150 grain bullet at 2,390 fps has 1,903 foot pounds of KE. So from that comparison even with the best loadings on the .30-30, the .22-250 still only has 200 foot lbs of KE less. BUT it should be noted that a 55 grain bullet moving less than 3,800 fps is NOT a good load for the .22-250, and neither is a 60 grain bullet moving at 3,580 fps. Both of those loads are mild factory loads designed to shoot in all rifles. If you throw a 55-60 grain bullet at 4,000-4,100 fps, you're not going to see an edge from the .30-30; these are perfectly safe levels for those weight of bullets from the .22-250. I only bring this point up to say that the .22-250 is NOT lacking in energy to kill a deer, IT HAS PLENTY. We can get even more velocity (KE) from a .22-250 AI. Some will argue the .30-30 will make a bigger hole, because it's a .30 caliber. They're mistaken though, and I know because I've shot lots of larger animals with both caliber. The expansion of the .22-250 is MUCH more volatile than the .30-30, and it will leave a MUCH bigger wound cavity on a deer. In a previous thread, I already said that for most shots that people take (hitting the front shoulder), it's TOO MUCH.

Can I kill a deer at 300 yards and in with a .22-250? EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. Would I encourage you to try to do this? NO. Would I do this myself on a deer? NOPE, that's what I haven't done it. But I can coldbore hit prairie dogs in the head with a .22-250 at 300 yards, so I know I could punch a deer's vitals or head all day long at that distance. NOW we come to the true comparison for the second question you asked. Are there a many options for acceptable hunting bullets for the .22 calibers? Nope, and it's why it's not as versatile of an OVERALL caliber as the .243. I like the .243, and it's what I recommend to people as the minimum caliber that they should take to kill a deer. Can it be done with a smaller caliber consistently? Yeah, with the right shooter and bullet, but when we're talking about ethics, animal's lives, dignity, etc. There's not any reason to push a .22-250 on a deer. It'll do it, sure, but the .243 will do whatever you need to on varmints and deer without so much as a hiccup. The .243 AI will do it even better and more consistently, lol, but we won't even get into that.

Sorry if this comes off as a rant, but I sometimes get a bit annerved when I hear someone think that you need a magnum to take a white tail deer. You don't NEED more, but if you can have some extra punch for the same price, better barrel life, etc. why not? I just want to debate a bit the point of the .22-250 DOES have enough punch to kill a deer without any fuss. I'm not saying that you should do it, or that even most people CAN; just don't do it. The versatility definitely goes to the .243, great cartridge and one of my favorites. Ok, semi rant off.

[Legion_Prime]

I disagree. Any drag on the bullet in its flight is going to have an effect on its velocity: It's going to slow it down. Being slowed, it allows gravity to work longer on pulling it toward the ground.

The differences between a .243 and .22 when talking about wind drag are minimal. It all has to do with velocity.

In this case if the bullets he is using have similar BC's then yes it would come down to the velocities. I was merely adding that BC will affect the ballistics in addition to the velocity.