Hey Chicken Littles-- wanna bet?

[Eugene V. Debs]

You Chicken Littles-- who actually think Obama's a Communist, who think we are on the verge of a Stalinist totalitarian nightmare, or other such nonsense-- I got a wager for you.

The bet is this-- I bet 1,000 dollars against each $100, that the following will or will not happen within the next two decades:

1. We will have a Republican President that the majority of people on PAFOA are saying we must vote for to protect our gun rights within the next 4 to 20 years.

2. No one here will be imprisoned simply for expressing their political or religious beliefs (for anything people could not and have not been arrested for prior to January of this year).

3. There will not be any mass imprisonment of political dissenters under the Obama administration.

4. Any imprisonment of political dissenters that does occur will not significantly exceed that (percentage-wise/per-capita) of political prisoners under Adams, Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and any President after FDR.

5. After the Obama administration is over and done with, the vast majority of industry that was privately-owned and operated before Obama took power, will still be privately-owned and operated.

6. Labor unions, which supposedly benefit so much from Obama and the Democrats, in the absence of any major industrial upheavals (mass organization/strike waves) will not have significantly more members as a percentage of the American workforce by the time Obama's out of office than before he got in, and, in fact, will likely have fewer.

7. No foreign country will attempt to invade us in the next 20 years.

8. There will be no sharia law or takeover by Muslims in the next 20 years in the US

9. People will still be allowed to worship Jesus for as long as I happen to be alive, and Christianity will remain the dominant religion in this country during that time as well

10. That despite all the people calling for a pox on both parties right now, at least 50% of PAFOA's membership will be telling us in 2012 that we have to vote for "X" GOP candidate, and all of a sudden, last election wasn't the most important in our lifetimes, this one is.

11. There will be no national mass confiscation of people's legally-purchased firearms under the Obama Administration.

12. Provided there is no serious effort at armed rebellion in the US, there will not even be a Federal mandatory registration of firearms in the next 8 years.

13. Eight years from now the same kinds of people who are predicting totalitarian dictatorship will still be posting about such nonsense on PAFOA or elsewhere, completely unmolested by Obama's evil socialist regime.

Just to be clear, you put up $100, I put up $1,000-- to a maximum of $5k total on my end-- and if any one of the things I predicted to be true proves false within the allotted time frame (or, in the reverse, if any of the things I said wouldn't happen does indeed come to pass), you win.

So come on crazy reactionary doomsayers-- put your money where your mouth is. I'm giving 10-1 odds and you only have to be right out of the thirteen above. Let's go.

[GunLawyer001]

Forget the money, we're betting our lives.

You don't have to throw people in prison for expressing their views, if you make sure that their views don't matter. The same party in control of Congress & the White House, for example.

You don't need to imprison people for political dissent if you confiscate enough of their money, and control how they spend much of the rest. When you can't afford the gas to the protest, you don't protest. Try stocking up on ammo with $1 per week. Government takes about half of GDP now. If they have the power to mandate "insurance" (it's not "insurance" if it's not risk-based), that gives government control of another 17% of the economy. The automotive industry is what percentage of the economy? The banks, how big is that controlled chunk? How close to 100% does government control have to get before your socialist utopia is achieved?

The people will be allowed to worship Jesus, sure, as long as they don't attempt to apply their silly religion to anything important, like abortion, helping the homeless, or domestic relations law. And good luck with that tithing of your 10% when government directly confiscates or controls 70-80% of your gross.

I don't expect foreign troops on US soil anytime soon. But I won't be surprised when Taiwan is repatriated by force, and we do nothing. When Israel gets the South Africa treatment, the Arabs take over the government, the USA mouths pious platitudes but does nothing, then the media lose all interest in what happens afterwards (what's the latest NBC news from South Africa? Anyone? Buehler?) We lose our base in Cuba, we pull our military out of Europe and Asia and Great Britain, and the Chinese run the Panama Canal Zone. But hey, no Russians marching down Wall Street, so everything's fine, right?

[Carnes]

You Chicken Littles-- who actually think Obama's a Communist, who think we are on the verge of a Stalinist totalitarian nightmare, or other such nonsense-- I got a wager for you.

Well, I don't gamble, so I'm out of the running for this. Regardless, the last thing I would be worried about if some of these horrible things were to come to pass would be $1000. And really, by that time, if the doomsayers are correct, inflation will allow that $1000 to buy me little more than a loaf of bread.

I agree that massive problems are unlikely, but does that mean that people should not be concerned about those kind of things at all? Is it like these are things that have never happened anywhere else in the world?

When I think about problems associated with massive inflation, I look back to my first hand experience filling up a tank of gas in Ghana. Their largest denomination bill was 20,000 Cedi. It took two completely full standard plastic shopping bags full of 20,000 Cedi bills to fill up a tank of gas.

There are people in the world right now dealing with enormous issues and they didn't plan for things to be that way. No government leaders woke up and said, "Hmm... I think I'm going to go ahead and ruin this country of mine." Yet it happens anyway.

Is it likely here? Not so much, but it is still quite possible, and it is something that good citizens will be diligent to ensure doesn't happen.

If I could get every American to adopt your attitude that none of the problems you listed are going to come to pass, I would take your bet, because it would not even be a gamble at that point. If all the citizens just decide to take it for granted that, 'this is the US, we'll be fine,' and ignore potential disaster, I would guarantee things would go south really quick. But again, the $1000 would be worthless at that point anyway.

So, I hope that this bet you are proposing is not some rhetorical thing that you are hoping to use to support a position, because it is a lousy bet not worth taking.

Also, you would need to work on some of the wording of your conditions.

5. After the Obama administration is over and done with, the vast majority of industry that was privately-owned and operated before Obama took power, will still be privately-owned and operated.

I would not bet specific dollar amounts on generalized conditions such as 'vast majority'. Jes sayin'.

[308man]

I bet an astroid will not hit earth in the next 20 minutes. Thats as far as I go. I would bet with you but Obama will tax me so hard it wont be worth the wager. You might want to reconsider the Privately run buisness clause of your not so binding contract.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Forget the money, we're betting our lives.

You don't have to throw people in prison for expressing their views, if you make sure that their views don't matter.

Hasn't that been pretty much true for those outside of the political mainstream for a very long time, though?

The same party in control of Congress & the White House, for example.

Won't stay that way for long. The people who run things in this country need the illusion of choice too much to resort to a one-party state-- their interests are much better served by two parties who differ on a few key issues but agree on everything that really matters to those with the money and power.

You don't need to imprison people for political dissent if you confiscate enough of their money, and control how they spend much of the rest. When you can't afford the gas to the protest, you don't protest. Try stocking up on ammo with $1 per week.

History doesn't bear that out. The oppressed and impoverished have been able to protest, even overthrow entire regimes, even into recent history.

Government takes about half of GDP now. If they have the power to mandate "insurance" (it's not "insurance" if it's not risk-based), that gives government control of another 17% of the economy.

Well, it doesn't appear as if single-payer health care will pass anytime soon, but even if it did, it's an industry that has been absorbed by the state in largely capitalist economies for many decades without a total shift in the economy to socialism (and this started when the USSR was still around and lots of people in Europe really thought a totally socialist economy was a great idea), so I don't expect it will be any different here, even if does happen.

The automotive industry is what percentage of the economy? The banks, how big is that controlled chunk?

Government will divest within 10 years. Betcha.

How close to 100% does government control have to get before your socialist utopia is achieved?

GL, if youda been paying attention you'd know that my "socialist utopia" does not involve government ownership of industry.

The people will be allowed to worship Jesus, sure, as long as they don't attempt to apply their silly religion to anything important, like abortion, helping the homeless, or domestic relations law.

Christian charities like soup kitchens will be banned? Okay, I'll definitely lay some money on that. Domestic relations law-- you mean Christians don't get to prevent gays from being married? How is that interfering with their religion exactly unless the government forces churches to also recognize gay marriage (again, I'll lay money against that happening). And abortion-- I'm also willing to bet the government won't force Christians to get abortions in my lifetime.

And good luck with that tithing of your 10% when government directly confiscates or controls 70-80% of your gross.

So if I start a religion where 99% of your money has to go to the church, and government takes 1% to pay for PD, FD and roads then they are discriminating against my religion?

I don't expect foreign troops on US soil anytime soon. But I won't be surprised when Taiwan is repatriated by force, and we do nothing. When Israel gets the South Africa treatment, the Arabs take over the government, the USA mouths pious platitudes but does nothing, then the media lose all interest in what happens afterwards (what's the latest NBC news from South Africa? Anyone? Buehler?) We lose our base in Cuba, we pull our military out of Europe and Asia and Great Britain, and the Chinese run the Panama Canal Zone. But hey, no Russians marching down Wall Street, so everything's fine, right?

Israel gets the South Africa treatment? You mean when the majority actually gain self-determination rights? Oh, how horrible. As to the rest-- you mean we'll actually go back to a non-interventionist foreign policy? Even worse!

[Eugene V. Debs]

Well, I don't gamble, so I'm out of the running for this. Regardless, the last thing I would be worried about if some of these horrible things were to come to pass would be $1000. And really, by that time, if the doomsayers are correct, inflation will allow that $1000 to buy me little more than a loaf of bread.

Okay 5,000 rds 7.62x39 to 500 rds. of same

Also, you would need to work on some of the wording of your conditions.

I would not bet specific dollar amounts on generalized conditions such as 'vast majority'. Jes sayin'.

I'm open to suggestions.

[308man]

Israel gets the South Africa treatment? You mean when the majority actually gain self-determination rights? Oh, how horrible. As to the rest-- you mean we'll actually go back to a non-interventionist foreign policy? Even worse![/QUOTE]

Guess we should have stayed out of Euorpe During WW2? The USA is the only country in the history of mankind that has liberated countries and asked in return only friendship and enough land to bury our dead. Obama is not going to destroy America himself but he will definitly send it futher along on its path to destruction. Guess you just don't understand how much We love this Great Nation. You need to see what is happening for what it is and not what you want it to be.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Guess we should have stayed out of Euorpe During WW2?

Nope, I generally think when other countries declare war on your country it's a pretty good idea to fight back.

[308man]

Yes and no. We ordered our navy to fire on German warships On 9-11-1941(Preemptive strike if you will). It wasnt until December of that year that The Germans had enough of us "provaking them". So answer the question again. Do you think we should have been involved in Euorpes Fight for liberation. www.ibiblio.org/pha/timeline/411211dwp.html

[Eugene V. Debs]

So answer the question again. Do you think we should have been involved in Euorpes Fight for liberation.

Yes, I do. As I think the conditions for a "just war" laid down by Catholic Church (though not a Catholic myself) are pretty solid (with a couple of exceptions)-- and American intervention in WWII, even if the Germans and Japanese had not declared war on us first, justified those conditions. However, I think very few of America's foreign military interventions, whether directly or by proxy, since WWII have fulfilled those conditions.