Convicted Felons Illegally Buying Guns

[WhiteFeather]

Lets see if I got ABC story right, FFL dealers are going to Knowingly sell guns to criminals for the same price that sell guns to anyone in their place of business just for a sale?

Take a chance on going to jail for a VERY long Time, just to sell a gun at the going rate or for just a few extra bucks.

Are they serious?


Well Mr criminal, I can give you the cut rate “wink” &” nod” if you buy more than one at a time, we can even do away with the paper work and sell you direct so you don’t have to pay any state taxes, just give me "the money".

WHAT kind of BS is ABC trying to sell in this slanted article?


http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=8365845

Convicted Felons Illegally Buying Guns
Scams, Negligence Help Bolster Firearm Sales to Criminals at Local Dealers

Gun sales in the United States have soared in recent years. According to statistics compiled by the FBI, background checks for gun purchases jumped to nearly 13 million last year, up from 8.9 million in 2005.

This year the FBI is on pace to process a record 16 million background checks for gun purchases. Most of the sales are to law-abiding citizens. But criminals are in the market, too, say experts.

Some of the methods the criminals use to illegally obtain guns are surprising, including walking right into to a gun store and buying them.

In Long Beach, Calif., a surveillance video obtained by ABC News shows a gun store clerk making an illegal handgun sale, police say. The clerk was secretly recorded by an ATF informant and a female undercover agent.

In the video, the clerk is told that the man who wants to buy the gun is a convicted felon, making the sale of a firearm illegal. It is illegal for convicted felons to own guns anywhere in the US.

"I like this one," the undercover agent says, pointing to one of the guns. "Its $200," says the clerk.

The ATF informant and undercover agent then devise what's called a "straw" purchase scam where the man posing as a felon has his girlfriend buy the gun. The whole process  which is also illegal - takes less than two minutes.

"What about her; can she do it," the informant asks, pointing to the other undercover agent who is a woman. "She can do it," the clerk says.

The straw purchase scam is one of the primary ways criminals get guns, according to law enforcement officials.

In the last five years, ATF has arrested more than 6,000 people for participating in such scams. It's even easier when the gun dealer is aware of the deal. Since 2006 ATF has identified more than 700 instances where dealers sold guns to people they suspected of being banned including felons, fugitives, and the mentally ill.

"It is big business," says Mark Kraft, a senior ATF official. "In the same way that people traffic drugs, people traffic guns."


Authorities say the overwhelming majority of the nation's more than 100,000 gun dealers are legitimate. Yet when even one dealer goes rogue it can have deadly consequences.

In New Orleans, three employees of a gun shop were sent to prison last year for diverting guns to criminals. Police say guns from the store were involved in up in 127 murders and more than 500 drug-related crimes.

Guns from dirty dealers flow into a thriving black market where thousands of weapons change hands, say law enforcement authorities.

Police in Pennsylvania caught an illegal gun peddler on surveillance tape showing off his weapons to two men he believes are convicted felons. They're really undercover agents.

"How much was that shot gun?" the undercover agent is heard asking. "$350 for a Smith & Wesson," the clerk is seen saying. "Can we do the four for $1900?" the agent asks. "Just give me $1850," says the clerk.

In America, getting guns illegally is usually just that easy, say police.

[Asterix909]

So... since '06 the ATF is aware of around 700 instances where dealers sold to convicted people... ... ...
last year alone, 13 million guns were sold...
Let us just pretend that since 06 13 million were sold... rather than 13 in one year alone (it will inflate the illegal gun sale percentage, which will help us show just how evil gun people are).

That means that... .0000538% of gun sales were to prohibited peoples...

Wait, I must have made a math mistake somewhere... .00005% is very small, very very very small... let me try again...

700/13,000,000=5.38e-5 ... carry the decimal over five places... and we have:
.0000538... again.



ok, so thats a bad argument... let's try again:
Mark Kraft declared it as a big business... lets take a look at just how much money is illegally trading hands:
700 identified instances, let's say of TEN THOUSAND dollars each. 10grand is a lot of money for one gun purchase... this will show just how evil this situation is for sure!

so, 700*10,000=7,000,000!!! thats 7 million dollars! thats a lot of money! but wait, thats since '06... so lets divide that out... 7m/3=2,333,333. 2.3m a year... so, in all the united states, 2.3m dollars a year is considered 'big business'? jeeze... about that much money trades hands in illegal drugs sales in some cities a week (no fact, just rough estimate guess).



this article was a waste of paper. ...or hard drive space... whatever.

[WhiteFeather]

So... since '06 the ATF is aware of around 700 instances where dealers sold to convicted people... ... ...
last year alone, 13 million guns were sold...
Let us just pretend that since 06 13 million were sold... rather than 13 in one year alone (it will inflate the illegal gun sale percentage, which will help us show just how evil gun people are).

That means that... .0000538% of gun sales were to prohibited peoples...

Wait, I must have made a math mistake somewhere... .00005% is very small, very very very small... let me try again...

700/13,000,000=5.38e-5 ... carry the decimal over five places... and we have:
.0000538... again.



ok, so thats a bad argument... let's try again:
Mark Kraft declared it as a big business... lets take a look at just how much money is illegally trading hands:
700 identified instances, let's say of TEN THOUSAND dollars each. 10grand is a lot of money for one gun purchase... this will show just how evil this situation is for sure!

so, 700*10,000=7,000,000!!! thats 7 million dollars! thats a lot of money! but wait, thats since '06... so lets divide that out... 7m/3=2,333,333. 2.3m a year... so, in all the united states, 2.3m dollars a year is considered 'big business'? jeeze... about that much money trades hands in illegal drugs sales in some cities a week (no fact, just rough estimate guess).



this article was a waste of paper. ...or hard drive space... whatever.

EXCELLENT, this is what needs to be done when these media mouth pieces spew this stuff. This is how we can beat them.

Analyze and show it for what it is PROPAGANDA. Notice how they take different stories and weave them together to make these kind of hit pieces articles that serve a agenda.

Figures can't lie but liars can figure

[Coops]

So... since '06 the ATF is aware of around 700 instances where dealers sold to convicted people... ... ...
last year alone, 13 million guns were sold...
Let us just pretend that since 06 13 million were sold... rather than 13 in one year alone (it will inflate the illegal gun sale percentage, which will help us show just how evil gun people are).

That means that... .0000538% of gun sales were to prohibited peoples...

Wait, I must have made a math mistake somewhere... .00005% is very small, very very very small... let me try again...

700/13,000,000=5.38e-5 ... carry the decimal over five places... and we have:
.0000538... again.

Not to change your argument, but 700 out of 13 million is .00538% (two zeroes not four). You have to divide by 100 when calculating percentages.
If it were an impurity it would be 700/13 or 54 parts per million.

[TaePo]

Not to change your argument, but 700 out of 13 million is .00538% (two zeroes not four). You have to divide by 100 when calculating percentages.
If it were an impurity it would be 700/13 or 54 parts per million.

It always seems like we start out with good intentions and end up with impure thoughts!

j/k

Let's not forget that they describe the sellers as clerks. We all know that the clerk is most likely not the owner. Otherwise, owner would be used in describing the people.

An owner has a vested interest in not screwing up. A clerk does not (at least not so much). Most people in a paid position just want to do a job. They get lazy and sloppy at times. So they are more likely to be undertrained and/or inattentive.

Further, did the undercover say they were a 'convicted felon'? Because that should have sent up red flags right there.

I suspect he said he was arrested for three times for DUI or fraud or some other charge that would be considered a felony by anyone familiar with the criminal justice system. But not necessarily a clerk. Or did the undercovers reference they were in prison at one time?

I really would like to know the details of how they presented themselves because it could matter materially in each case.

But, yes, 700 out of 13mil is a pittance.

The last question is, of the straw purchases, what percentage are actually used in crimes? Is it not possible a felon wants a firearm for protection only albeit illegally?

[Asterix909]

Not to change your argument, but 700 out of 13 million is .00538% (two zeroes not four). You have to divide by 100 when calculating percentages.
If it were an impurity it would be 700/13 or 54 parts per million.

LOL
Dang...
I seriously did my math the second time not for the intent of 'pretending' to think something was wrong, but that I actually thought something was off. Yet, even the second time around I failed to interpret my answer correctly...
damn calculator had to display my result as "5.38[...lots of numbers...]154e-5" instead of just ".0000538[...lots of numbers...]" ... cuz I'd like to think, that without the extra step of shifting the decimal, I'd have recognized I was dealing in a percentage and considered the first two spaces:-/

thanks for catching that.

oh well... this is just a lesson that you should not come to me for simple math help.


Even so though, .0053% is very small too. very small

[Warpt762x39]

Now let's not confuse the antis with those pesky facts. Facts have no emotion behind them and emotions is what matters when it comes to gun control.

[BanginBonnie2]

So... since '06 the ATF is aware of around 700 instances
That means that... .0000538% of gun sales were to prohibited peoples...

Wait, I must have made a math mistake somewhere... .00005% is very small, very very very small... let me try again...

700/13,000,000=5.38e-5 ... carry the decimal over five places... and we have:
.0000538... again.


... so, 700*10,000=7,000,000!!! that's 7 million dollars! thats a lot of money! but wait, thats since '06... so lets divide that out... 7m/3=2,333,333. 2.3m a year... so, in all the united states, 2.3m dollars a year is considered 'big business'? jeeze... about that much money trades hands in illegal drugs sales in some cities a week (no fact, just rough estimate guess).

Hello Asterix,

May I give you a HUGE > ' BINGO ' !

I haven't the mathematical skills you seem to possess, but may I present another ... insignificant ... number.

My T-V tuned to some propaganda news show has told me on more than one occasion that .. " only 10 % OF THE Muslim Population is " Radical " !

Now, I only went to 12 years of Catholic School and didn't have a stellar attendance record, but I figure that if " only 10 % " is insignificant in the Radical statistic, and even in Catholic School 10 % is greater then " .0000538 " , that in my eyes, makes your calculation as you say, a waste of hard-drive and time ... and another Huge Bingo !

Your respond is the type that trips-up and exposes the Fact-Free Media Reports in great fashion and I love it !

[biddy]

the atf has identified 700 instances where they "SUSPECTED" people of being felons..........
so what this says,to me, is that the atf doesn't know if these people are restricted from owning weapons at all.