Quick Check of Rifle Laws

[MkNY83]

I am a NY resident with a Florida CCW permit and am in the process of getting a NYC handgun permit. I dont think either of those pertain to my question however. I have a house in PA also and I'm looking to buy a rifle. My question is am I allowed to purchase a rifle from a FFL in PA and not deal with an FFL in my home state? Just going over the laws and FAQ sections from ATF it looks like I'm ok as long as the purchase is not a handgun. Reason being, if I go through a NY FFL then I would have to purchase another license in NYC (the handgun only license is $440, I believe rifle is around $250 additional). Also, NYC permits do not allow you to take your guns outside of NY state. If I am allowed to buy the rifle in PA and keep it here, what if any, documentation would I need to purchase the rifle?? Thanks for any help guys.

[fingers80002]

Edit:

My local shop will sell long guns to MD residents, so you may be ok.

[knight0334]

As long as the rifle is legal in NYC and you have the proper license for NYC, you can buy a rifle in PA under PA and Federal laws. However, if NYC prohibits you from buying in another state - you are shit out of luck.

You may still need a NYC rifle license to purchase in PA due to the presumption that you could/would take it back to NYC. You still have to abide by your state/local laws while purchasing in another state. A FFL may not know your state or local restrictions on possession and purchases, and my not require you to provide your NYC rifle/shotgun residence-target possession license, which could cause a legal complication.

[MkNY83]

As long as the rifle is legal in NYC and you have the proper license for NYC, you can buy a rifle in PA under PA and Federal laws. However, if NYC prohibits you from buying in another state - you are shit out of luck.

You may still need a NYC rifle license to purchase in PA due to the presumption that you could/would take it back to NYC. You still have to abide by your state/local laws while purchasing in another state. A FFL may not know your state or local restrictions on possession and purchases, and my not require you to provide your NYC rifle/shotgun residence-target possession license, which could cause a legal complication.

It wouldnt really be a legal complication for me since I would NEVER need to bring it to NY and PA doesnt care where it is as long as I can legally purchase it. Its not like NYC LE would come to my PA house searching for guns.

The difficulty is distinguishing the difference between law and rules. For instance, even with a valid handgun license in NYC and a Florida CCW, I can not bring a handgun out of NYC. ITS NOT ILLEGAL and I can never be arrested for it, but if the NYPD finds out, they can confiscate my license/guns. So its a very gray area.

[Xringshooter]

I am a NY resident ... Reason being, if I go through a NY FFL then I would have to purchase another license in NYC (the handgun only license is $440, I believe rifle is around $250 additional). ... If I am allowed to buy the rifle in PA and keep it here, what if any, documentation would I need to purchase the rifle?? Thanks for any help guys.

If you try to buy a rifle in PA and give the FFL your NY ID he is going to ask what is required in NY to purchase a rifle (if he didn't know the NY laws). If NY requires you to have a license to buy a rifle then you would have to produce that license for the FFL to go through with the transaction. To buy a rifle you have to comply not only with PA laws but also any and all applicable NY (and NYC) laws, whether or not the rifle will ever be taken to NY.

Documentation to purchase a rifle would be a valid ID that shows your current address and any documentation from NY that says you are allowed to purchase a rifle. If you allowed to purchase in NY, then you'll be allowed to purchase in PA.

[tl_3237]

As others have already said, your out-of-state purchase must be in conformance with all state laws in both the state of purchase and the state of residence per Federal law.

Interestingly, the prohibition on the FFL only refers to state, not local, laws. That's not to say that a local law does not come into play but it would depend on if the state incorporates the local laws by reference or delegation of authority. A 'fine' nuance in the law but I wouldn't necessarily try to 'hang my hat' on it but it would be an intriguing subject for debate.

TITLE 18 USC § 922. Unlawful acts
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and
(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[Blue301]

As usual NYC is clear as mud sometimes. All references to in the NYC section refer to possession, sale and disposition in the city itself. I attached the complete code from the ATF on NY. So maybe another set of eyes would not mind taking a look as well. As far as PA you just need your DL to purchase.
new_york.pdf

[JCWohlschlag]

Also, NYC permits do not allow you to take your guns outside of NY state.

Where exactly did you get this information from?

[MkNY83]

Where exactly did you get this information from?

From the NYC gun laws packet, downloaded with the application. It says the handgun license is valid in your residence ONLY, except when taken directly to and from an authorized gun range with handgun unloaded and locked in seperate case from ammo in trunk. You even need prior authorization to take the gun to a gunsmith because it does not comply with these rules. There was a court case recently where a resident was trying to sue the NYPD licensing division for revoking his license and confiscating his guns. He attempted to fly from JFK airport to another state for a gun show (I believe Nevada), where his florida CCW permit was valid. The NYPD confiscated his license and guns because they said when he left his house with his handgun to go to the airport, he was not going to an authorized range, thus violating the rules for his residence permit. The NYPD's ruling was upheld and this poor citizen can no longer own a gun in NYC.

http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3ds...2008_05814.htm

Main point taken from the above link

It is not necessary to permit holders of premises residence firearms licenses to transport guns to another state in order to harmonize the law of this State with the provisions of FOPA. Section 926A permits a licensee, in certain circumstances, to transport a firearm "from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm." Where the licensee is not permitted by the terms of the license to lawfully carry the firearm at the time he embarks on a trip to another state, FOPA is inapplicable.