Escorted by police out of Cinemark-Moosic location

[nepawolf]

Nepadestroyer and myself (both OCing) went to the Cinemark on Montage mountain to see the 12:35 showing of GI Joe. We bought our tickets and went to the concession stand for drinks. After purchasing our drinks we went to enter the theater where it was being shown.

Right before entering, I was pulled aside by manager Dan Halt. He informed us that guns were not allowed there and asked if I would mind putting my gun in my car. I told him that I would mind putting it in my car and that as I was handicapped, my gun is my crutch for self defense and that I had openly carried there many times before. He said alright, that's fine. To make sure I understood his last statement, I asked if I had to put my gun in my car, to which he replied that I didn't and told us to go on in.

After sitting through all of the ads for about a half of an hour, we see Mr. Halt at the entrance with two police officers. After looking over the whole theater he spotted us and sent one of the officers over to me. The officer asked if he could talk to me on the side, to which I of course agreed to. The officer walked with me to the entrance of the theater where the other officer and the manager where standing. Officer #1 informs me that firearms are prohibited in the theater and as such I'm going to have put it in my vehicle. I told him that I was not willing to put it in my vehicle and that Mr. Halt had said that I could have the weapon in the theater in our previous discussion and restated that I had open carried there many times before. Mr. Halt interjected at that point saying that people had complained since I had talked to him and that's why he had to call the police. Officer #1 said that they have a "no firearms" sign out front and as such I have to leave if I won't put it in my car. I told them that I didn't see any sign but if I have to leave I'm going to have to get my buddy who came with me. I gesture to nepadestroyer and he comes over. While he's walking over, officer #1 tells me that he'll show me the sign. I inform the group of them that if we have to leave that we're going to need refunds. At that time the manager disappeared somewhere after saying that we'll get a refund. After he left I said to the officers that I hope we're going to get a refund for the expensive drinks we bought.

About a third of a way to the exit, the manager comes back and asks for our tickets saying that he needs them for us to get a refund. We hand him the tickets and he heads off for our refund. Officer #1 shows us the sign at the bottom of a list of prohibitions, about knee height on the far left side (Which, of course, you wouldn't see when you're looking straight up to find your movie time or when you're paying for your ticket as the counter is in the way then). Officer #1 tells us that since they have the sign they can ask us to leave and if they didn't they wouldn't be able to. He also said that Mr. Halt can't give us special permission as it is corporate policy. Mr. Halt gives us our movie ticket refund (no money back for the almost $5 drinks though) and we leave.



Before anyone says anything about the sign, I already know about it's legality. Also, at no time were we asked for ID, nor did they run the "registration" on either one of the OCed guns, nor were we searched or disarmed. The bottom line of the whole situation is that we were allowed entrance, had to talk to the manager and were given the OK, and then escorted out in front of a packed theater like criminals and were not given a full refund. If we had just wanted to go out for a large fountain soda, we could have gone to McDonalds and gotten them for $1 each and would not have been treated like criminals. Thanks to the lack of full refund, nepadestroyer doesn't have money to see the movie elsewhere as he's presently strapped for cash. Of course, I am paying for his ticket when we see it elsewhere since they didn't even see him OCing and had only noticed mine. As a note, Officer #2 (who had a white shirt on) didn't say much of anything except answer my questions about his revolver while we were walking. Smith and Wesson 38 special SS in a leather holster, by the way.

[FormerUser123]

Why were you so argumentative? He could have kicked you out because your shoes were too quiet if he wanted. When he first pulled you aside and asked you to disarm, you should have either disarmed or asked for your refund.

I respect the fact that you're not willing to disarm to patronize an institution, but I lament the fact that you fought with them over their property rights.

Sounds like the police did a good job, though, and the manager didn't seem all that bad either. Did you take your drinks with you?

[mrjam2jab]

the sign at the bottom of a list of prohibitions, about knee height on the far left side (Which, of course, you wouldn't see when you're looking straight up to find your movie time or when you're paying for your ticket as the counter is in the way then)

I was in United Artists Oxford Valley the other day. Their list of rules is white cling letters, the whole sign being about 6" square you had to be right on it the letters were so small, and keep changing the angle at which you looked at it to read the whole thing. I didnt see anything about firearms on it tho.

Unfortunately, we had just come out of Oxford Valley Mall so i had already pulled my shirt tail out...so i wasnt open at the theater.

[XD40coyote]

How come they didn't notice nepadestroyer OCing? Is he white, you are black, or something like that? You mention you are handicapped. Something sounds fishy in a discrimination sort of way. Something going beyond just the OCing.

[culpepermm]

I'm new here so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I'm kind of impressed by how well that went for you. I guess theres two ways to look at it. I definitely respect you for exercising your right to oc. On the other hand, the business has their property rights and they're not going to be in business long if they don't respect the desires of their customers. Their side of things really comes down to the sign, (however difficult to read!)

I think the police could have been a lot less respectful in that situation so kudos to them for being professionals. Overall its a good example of the difficulties of oc.

[nepawolf]

Why were you so argumentative? He could have kicked you out because your shoes were too quiet if he wanted. When he first pulled you aside and asked you to disarm, you should have either disarmed or asked for your refund.

I respect the fact that you're not willing to disarm to patronize an institution, but I lament the fact that you fought with them over their property rights.

Sounds like the police did a good job, though, and the manager didn't seem all that bad either. Did you take your drinks with you?

I'm quite aware that he could have kicked me out for anything, but he had given us unquestionable permission to stay when I first talked to him. That's why I asked if I was allowed to stay after saying that I was not willing to disarm.

I did not fight them over their property rights, he made a request and I told him that I could not comply with that and he did not ask me to leave for my refusal. We did not argue with him, but simply stated that "I'm handicapped and as such my gun is my self defense crutch since I cannot defend myself." I told him I was not OK with putting my weapon in my car, he said OK. I asked him if we still had to leave, he said "No you can stay." I offered that we leave instead of putting the gun in the car, and was not required by him to do either. He had us embarrassed and made to look like criminals and showed no respect with that action, despite the fact that we had been nothing but polite and showed respect to him.

No argument about the police, they did just fine, but the fact that he called the police instead of just coming up to us and asking us to leave made both of us (especially myself) look like criminals in front of a packed theater. Yes, we took our drinks with us since we were not refunded the money. I was not about to pay that much for a drink and get neither the drink nor my money back.

[granuale]

Why were you so argumentative? He could have kicked you out because your shoes were too quiet if he wanted. When he first pulled you aside and asked you to disarm, you should have either disarmed or asked for your refund.

Yeah, politely explaining the reason he carries and asking for permission to continue doing so is really an affront to good order and common sense!

[nepawolf]

How come they didn't notice nepadestroyer OCing? Is he white, you are black, or something like that? You mention you are handicapped. Something sounds fishy in a discrimination sort of way. Something going beyond just the OCing.

I wear a stainless 1911 in a leather holster and he was carrying a S&W M&P 45. The all black guns tend not to be as noticed, and as I was wearing all black the stainless shows more. But, yes I do feel like I was discriminated against for being handicapped since I informed him that that is why I carry and won't disarm. There was one person in a wheel chair when we left, as a side note.

[wa3ra]

As I see it, the OP was given permission to stay; the person that granted that permission then reneged on that permission.

His decision to evict the customers, the drinks should have been on his dime.

[GunLawyer001]

I have mixed feelings about how much cooperation one should show in such a circumstance.

Yes, the property owner can demand that you leave for any reason, provided that he gives a full refund. I'd also demand a refund for the beverage, since they won't let you bring your own in, and you have a contract whereby you buy any beverages from them at inflated prices as a condition of watching the movie.

I'm a polite person. But these location managers want to follow the path of least resistance, and on the one hand they have some whiny bitch of a sheep who is unarmed and demands that everyone else be just as much of a target. She's going to whine to the manager about perfectly lawful conduct.

Then the manager wants this to go away with the least amount of fuss and effort. If you smile sadly and quietly walk out, then THAT'S the path that the manager will follow EVERY TIME. If, on the other hand, you stand on your rights, demand a refund for the tickets, and the drinks, and any parking that you paid, and the cost of gas to get there....and you demand the name of his boss because you plan to write letters, and state that there may be litigation over your ruined evening, and that you noticed some less-than-clean conditions in the food prep area...then maybe the unhappy sighs will start when the next whiny self-important bitch shrilly complains that "HE HAS A GUN ISN'T THAT ILLEGAL DO SOMETHING HELP ME HELP ME".

If you happen to be there with someone of the same gender, it might be a good time to develop a bit of a lisp, angle one hip to the side, and archly claim "oh, I know what this is REALLY about!" Handicapped folks should mention the ADA. Gun owners aren't a protected class, but lots of other groups are. Change the topic to something that will bring the manager more grief by hassling you than if he told the complainer to stuff it.

There's a safe zone between you being the least annoying customer, and you defiantly trespassing. Be at least as burdensome as the irritants who initiated the complaint, then the easy choice won't always be to make you leave.