Had a discusson with a police officer today - open carry came up.

[NineseveN]

Thanks. That's the gist of how I felt, but I wanted an inside perspective in case there was something that I was missing.

[N3HCP]

OK, so let's say I am carrying openly and a misinformed officer arrests me. At some point in the process he, or someone, will need to indicate what law I have actually broken. Given that there is no specific law against open carry, would I be released at that point, or will I spend the night, at least, in the local pockie while the officer and the DA decide what offence, if any, to charge me with? Will I need to spend my moldy money on a lawyer to defend myself from a wrongful arrest?

I'm not trying to be flippant, this is a real concern for me when I consider this or any behavior, like Post Office or State Park carry, that treads on gray legal ground.

[TonyF]

............. this is a real concern for me when I consider this or any behavior, like Post Office or State Park carry, that treads on gray legal ground.

I don't understand why some of you guys are pushing the envelope by OC in places like state parks and USPS?

[NineseveN]

I don't understand why some of you guys are pushing the envelope by OC in places like state parks and USPS?

..and you likely never will. That's okay though, we still like ya the same either way.

[N3HCP]

I don't understand why some of you guys are pushing the envelope by OC in places like state parks and USPS?

Sorry...I didn't mean to imply I OC in Parks or the Post Office. I obey the rules and don't carry either place. It is, at times, a major hassle, however. I often walk to the Post Office to get my mail (my little town doesn't have mail delivery). It's about a mile both ways and I can't carry during the walk. I also camp frequently in State Parks. I can have a gun in the truck and camper, but not anywhere else in the park. That means the gun must be unattended at the camp sight if I want to walk or hike in the park. Given that, there is a great temptation to "bend" the rules...but I won't, I won't....

But this is way off topic... my basic question, I guess, is "How much hassle will I be in for if I OC and run up against an uninformed LEO and if OC really worth the trouble?"

[Skuggi]

I don't understand why some of you guys are pushing the envelope by OC in places like state parks and USPS?

not jumping on ya man, but it's a thing some people possess in their soul and some don't. It also seems like a lot of people don't well understand why the OC crowd does what they do because they may get hassled.

To me I know what is meant by "The Right of The People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed."

It's not just that, it goes the same towards any of our Rights. It's something some people have that is a feeling of Pride for this country and it's rights that are not available anywhere else. We wish to keep it that way, it's in our very fabric of being and see Gun Control as a means that is in direct conflict with our rights.

We not only see guns as self defense tools, but as a very fabric of the American way. This country has a lot of history enveloped with firearms. It is what keeps our hard fought for rights permanent.

OCing is the biggest way we can go and support this right, it draws questions and helps to get the word out. It also will hopefully be what allows the people who have been taught by the media that guns are bad, to be more accepted.

We also see forced concealment as another way to hide guns away from the public, to help keep them bottled up so that there will be no converts to the "Pro 2A" side of things.

Now I personally don't carry in state parks, I never go to any, anyway. Post offices, never use those either. I probably wouldn't go treading that ground anyway, if I had the money to risk having a long court battle, I may just because it is Right.

[GunLawyer001]

The Pennsylvania Statutes are huge. Even if a cop is only focusing on Title 18, the Crimes Code, its'a thick book that changes every year.

I don't expect any officer to have the elements of every offense memorized, any more than one of us non-cops is expected to really know the legal parking distance from a corner or a hydrant, and who can use a blue revolving light, and what level of light transmission is required for tinted windows at front, sides, and rear, and what amount of money you can keep if you find it, and what the fine is for failing to license your dog, and what you can throw in the trash and what has to be recycled and what has to be put with hazardous waste...

Face it, the government micromanages us with tens of thousands of rules, and most of those rules have been interpreted by the courts in ways that change the written words.

I don't object to a random cop being unaware of one sentence from one paragraph from one statute. When they seize guns but fail to give a receipt, I don't file a civil rights lawsuit or seek to have them charged criminally for violating the UFA. What yanks my chain is when they are aggressively ignorant, when they don't know the law so they bluff & threaten.

Nobody should complain when a cop says "let me check the statutes here". It's when he refuses to check that problems ensue.

There's no law that requires concealed carry, but by the time the arresting officer has seized your gun, placed the cuffs on, and wasted a couple hours of the government's time, he's GOING to charge you with SOMETHING, and that's going to be "disorderly conduct" because nothing else comes even close.

I've had pleasant encounters with cops, where I supplied them with statutory citations for their obligation to issues receipts, the statutory award of attorney fees against them if they fail to return guns, and the way Licenses to Carry Firearms really work. I've had to do a diagram while standing in the Court of Common Pleas to explain to an ADA how the Restoration of Rights process works.

Just because we live and breathe firearms doesn't mean that anyone else thinks about them very much. Be prepared to educate people.

[phillyd2]

To me I know what is meant by "The Right of The People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed."

Hows that working out for you?

[Skuggi]

Hows that working out for you?

For me great, for others... meh.

[TonyF]

not jumping on ya man, but it's a thing some people possess in their soul and some don't.

Let me tell you something, I applaud your efforts OC'ing but I have been doing so FOR YEARS, long before most of you were even old enough to own a handgun.

Pushing the envelope in places (state parks and USPS) that violates regs or policies IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE REGS AND POLICIES. In fact, it may backfire. Does anyone want the current PA General Assembly (responsible for the recent flood of anti-gun legislation) discussing the fact that Open Carry is legal in PA?

This particular perspective on OC reminds me of the "banner at the gun rights rally" argument. It's not prudent, especially in the case of the USPS. Who here thinks by OC'ing in the Post Office that it will somehow compel the U.S. Congress to pass legislation prohibiting the Postmaster General from enforcing the current weapons policy?