Gunlawer:Investigation help and transfer of estate weapons in custody...

**matty70** · July 16th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Mods-if this post is in the wrong Forum-Please move it so it gets the best exposure

GL or anyone else who might be able to help-

My brother was killed Sept 2008, in FL. in what I would call a home invasion by an aquaintance. There are alot of extenuating details but bottom line is he was beaten to death with the stock of his own SKS when a struggle ensued while trying to clear his house of the intruder. Now the LEO investigating has dropped the ball and left out enough details (witness statements have been left out of the report and the LEO refuses to properly amend the report) in the report so that the DA cannot prosecute apparently because of Castle Doctrine (the intruder claims self defense b/c a gun was pointed at him-in FL apparently there is no duty to retreat even if you are the one comitting the crime???) To me self defense is defined by neutrilizing a threat-not neutrailizing, and continuing to beat an unconscious person until the stock of the rifle breaks! Anyhow as it stands right now this guy won't be charged (he even has priors for pistol-whipping someone else and he's out walkin.) We believe he "knows" someone who is sweeping this under the rug, but we are pressing the issue and getting nowhere. I need help getting other authorities to investigate this.

Secondly and of least importance of course is how do I get my brother's 3 rifles and ammo back, that are now in police custody, but are the property of his estate, which the executor is my mother who lives in NJ. (very messy)I want the rifles transfered into my name in PA. Are the rifles her property now? If so it would be illegal for her own them in NJ (I believe they are banned there, even if they are not banned, my mother doesn't have a NJ FID.) Can they be transfered directly to me by having the "estate" ship them to my FFL dealer. I believe guns can be transfered from/to parent/child with out a transfer but with the estate involved an the good possiblity of being illegal for my mother to possess in NJ this is making my head spin and I just cant' let them go from the evidence room to the smelting pot! Where do I go next???? Thanks in advance!

**customloaded** · July 16th, 2009, 11:57 AM

I'm sorry for your loss...what a horrible way to experience our broken and most often times not fair, criminal Justice system. I heart goes out to you and your family.

I'm not a legal scholar and other more versed in Firearm laws will be along shortly, this I promise.

Peace and may Justice be served!

**matty70** · July 16th, 2009, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by customloaded

I'm sorry for your loss...what a horrible way to experience our broken and most often times not fair, criminal Justice system. I heart goes out to you and your family.

I'm not a legal scholar and other more versed in Firearm laws will be along shortly, this I promise.

Peace and may Justice be served!!

Thank you-somehow I find comfort in that!

**S&WM&P40** · July 16th, 2009, 12:39 PM

I also can not really offer much but my condolences. This is a terrible tradgedy.

**JCWohlschlag** · July 17th, 2009, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by matty70

… the DA cannot prosecute apparently because of Castle Doctrine (the intruder claims self defense b/c a gun was pointed at him-in FL apparently there is no duty to retreat even if you are the one comitting the crime???)

I’m not GunLawyer001, but the above portion made me think, “What the hell?” The “stand your ground” portion of any state’s “castle doctrine” laws usually only remove the duty to retreat from people who are somewhere they have a right to be. A home intruder does not have an inherent right to be in someone else’s house, so the stand your ground portion does not apply. Florida’s entire “castle doctrine” statute can be found in Florida Crimes Code § 776.013, and the point I make is found in ¶ (3).

Anyone who somehow flips castle doctrine around to protect the home intruder instead of the home owner, especially in this fashion, is a complete and total fucktard.

On another note, I would like to offer my condolences, as well.

**GunLawyer001** · July 17th, 2009, 05:44 AM

I have no opinion on Florida criminal law. I'm not admitted to the Florida Bar.

The estate is also governed by Florida law, but in general, an Executor speaks for the estate, and only the Executor can demand the return of the guns from the police. The Executor handles an estate where there's a Will; if there's no valid Will, then someone is appointed the "Administrator" instead. Both Executors and Administrators are "Personal Representatives" (PR) of the estate.

There can be more than one PR in some states, and they are appointed by the register of wills (or the equivalent) in the county where he died. If it's inconvenient for the mother to serve, I expect that there's a process in Florida for replacing her, or adding a 2nd PR. A Florida lawyer would know for sure.

The guns are "owned" by the estate. The PR is the only person entitled to possession. The PR is obliged to hold all estate property until it's disposed of according to the terms of the Will, or according to the Rules of Intestacy of the state where he died. (Real estate (land) is handled differently than other property.)

There are special rules for transferring estate property to heirs across state lines.

**knight0334** · July 17th, 2009, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by JCWohlschlag

I’m not GunLawyer001, but the above portion made me think, “What the hell?” The “stand your ground” portion of any state’s “castle doctrine” laws usually only remove the duty to retreat from people who are somewhere they have a right to be. A home intruder does not have an inherent right to be in someone else’s house, so the stand your ground portion does not apply. Florida’s entire “castle doctrine” statute can be found in Florida Crimes Code § 776.013, and the point I make is found in ¶ (3).

Anyone who somehow flips castle doctrine around to protect the home intruder instead of the home owner, especially in this fashion, is a complete and total fucktard.

On another note, I would like to offer my condolences, as well.

Your view is correct. Florida's Castle Doctrine and SYG does not provide for the protections of the intruder. If anything, those committing a "forcible felony", become a lawful target down there. And burglary in Florida IS a forcible felony.

One's home in FL is truly one's castle, and with an unlawful entry there is presumption that the intruder is there to cause harm.

That DA is a fucktard and needs to be removed from office.

====

GL001,

The estate laws for FL are very similar to PA. The intestacy portion is stronger though in FL if an executor isn't arranged prior to death by the deceased. If there is an executor, he/she may distribute as he/she sees fit. If someone that may have inherited a portion of the estate via intestate succession feels like they were "jipped", they can appeal to a court. ...but I do believe they can only do that if they receive absolutely nothing from the executor.

**matty70** · July 17th, 2009, 12:30 PM

First of all thank you all for your condolences!
I feel I cannot fully explain all the varying reports, and witness accounts publically but if you feel you can be of assistance making sense of what is happening I would appreciate a PM or email
Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and insight. I just don't get it-even if "stand your ground "applied how can the guy legally continue the fight after my brother was disarmed by striking him with the rifle?
BTW the fucktad and all involved were somehow transfered with promotions!