Reloading question

[Achilleus]

I test-fired my first attempt at reloading today - a small batch of 38 specials (in a S&W 686). I used the starting-point weight of two different powders (IMR 4756 and Hodgdon Clays). Both powders shot so mildly compared to factory rounds, it was almost disappointing. Felt like a 22.

Question is this: To go up to the maximum recommended number of grains is only a small fraction higher that what I already used (something like 20%). Does this make a big difference in speed and power? If not, what am I doing wrong?

These are the charges I used:

Clays - 2.5 grain.
IMR 4756 - 5.4 grain
Bullet: Rainier 125 grain copper jacketed, in Speer 38 special brass cases.

[Pizza Bob]

You just, unintentionally, discovered several of the advantages of handloading. 1) Reduced power loads for punching paper - less punishing to you and the firearm. 2) Tailoring of the load by powder choice - which can also affect cost/round.

When dealing with small capacity cases (read that handgun) a small difference in powder quantity can make a big difference in round performance. This is especially true when using faster burning powders. I'm not familiar with using either Clays or 4756 for .38 special, but looking at a burn rate chart, both appear suitable. Enjoy the experience, doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong. I might suggest the use of cast bullets to further reduce round cost - especially since you are reloading for a revolver (and before anybody jumps on me, I'm not saying cast bullets are unsuitable for semi-autos, I have sent, literally thousands of H&G 68 200gr BBSWC down range from various 1911's - just saying it's less critical in a wheel gun).

Any time you want to sit down and talk about any aspects of this or other firearm related subjects, I'm just down the road. You know how to find me.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[phill]

I test-fired my first attempt at reloading today - a small batch of 38 specials (in a S&W 686). I used the starting-point weight of two different powders (IMR 4756 and Hodgdon Clays). Both powders shot so mildly compared to factory rounds, it was almost disappointing. Felt like a 22.

Question is this: To go up to the maximum recommended number of grains is only a small fraction higher that what I already used (something like 20%). Does this make a big difference in speed and power? If not, what am I doing wrong?

These are the charges I used:

Clays - 2.5 grain.
IMR 4756 - 5.4 grain
Bullet: Rainier 125 grain copper jacketed, in Speer 38 special brass cases.

Lee Modern reloading shows a starting load of 3.6 and a max of 3.9 for this load. This should make a big difference in the load.

[Achilleus]

Thank you both for your info tips. I just reloaded 50 rounds at 6 grn of IMR 4756, which it the maximum load, let's see how that handles.

Seems from the data that, in general, heavier bullets require less powder than light bullets - which of those two extremes provides more kick to the shooter? (I'm shooting paper targets most of the time).

[Pizza Bob]

Seems from the data that, in general, heavier bullets require less powder than light bullets - which of those two extremes provides more kick to the shooter? (I'm shooting paper targets most of the time).

By kick I assume that you mean recoil impulse, which is a function of both bullet weight and the velocity at which it's driven. Perceived recoil is also affected by the pressure curve of the powder used.

Smaller amounts of powder behind heavier bullets resulting in higher velocities and/or more recoil impulse is a function of the pressure created because of the smaller volume of space (heavy v. light bullets) in which the powder is confined.

Not so sure that I would have gone directly to the max load - however, that being said, if these are .38 spl's in an L-frame S&W .357, I wouldn't expect any problems. You should generally build to the max load from about 10% below max.

Load development is another incentive to handload. Incremental changes in powder charges can have marked a affect on accuracy - not so much with handguns, but definitely with rifles.

Sounds like you're having fun experimenting. Did you join Citizen's?

Adios.

Pizza Bob

[Achilleus]

I went to the Citizen's club but have not applied for membership - I don't like all the rules there, some of them just stink, for example not loading up a mag, or using magnum rounds indoors? I appreciate the concern for the outdoor range, but indoors that just doesn't make sense to me.

RAFire is really great for me, and for me worth the extra 15 minutes drive, but each to his own. Do you go there much?

[Ballistic Engineering]

I agree with pizza bob on everything. I might add also that if you decide to have cast bullets made, it would be a good idea to have the bore diameter measured. You can have a gunsmith do it for you, or it is an easy process that I would be glad to help you with.
By doing this, the cast bullets can be sized to your bore. Thus in turn making it more accurate.

gene

[Pizza Bob]

RAFire is really great for me, and for me worth the extra 15 minutes drive, but each to his own. Do you go there much?

Occasionally. I've been shooting more rifle, lately, than handgun and for that I go to two clubs to which I belong. One close, but with rules similar to Citizen. I'm not crazy about their rifle range. The target points are depressed so far below the benches that you have to elevate the butt unnaturally to get on target, which affects accuracy. The other is a bit of a drive (NW of Allentown, PA), but worth it. Low dues, beautiful facility (rifle range to 300 yds). Even if I only go there once a year it's worth it to me.

If you feel like company next time you go to RAF, PM or e-mail me. I'm kinda on the way and I have a 624 that I need to shoot. Also, if there is something you'd like to try, I may have it or something similar.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[FMJ]

Seems from the data that, in general, heavier bullets require less powder than light bullets

I think this is due to the fact that to maintain the same diameter but add weight, the bullet had to grow in length, being placed deeper into the case, hence there is less volume capacity for powder.
At least thats how I understood it.

[mjporreca]

Archilleus,

Welcome to the complex world of reloading. To answer your quesiton, yes, a 20% powder change and drastically change the feel. It's for several reasons,

The more full a case is, the quicker pressure can build and the faster the powder will burn.

Different powders burn at different speeds (again affecting pressure). I use slow powders for my .357 Magnum loads and quicker for .38 loads.

Another interesting thing you'll find is barrel legnth will matter. Your 686 is a great choice because you can really throw anything through it and it will love it. So you can use one consistant platform to see a variety of loads and not worry about the pistol. As long as you don't get ridiculous going over max loads the 686 will take it.

Take a load with slower burning powder from the 686 and try it in something with a 2" or 4" less on the barrell and you'll feel a difference.

enjoy,

Mike