Motorcycle Ramblings

**Rule10b5** · May 30th, 2007, 10:48 AM

I frequently see posts (on other sites, mostly) talking about motorcycle carry, and how you'd defend yourself legally, etc. I've commented a few times -- I'd like to repeat those posts, and then confirm based on a recent experience.

It has been my position that you have almost no chance of effectively, or legally, using deadly force from a motorcycle. Almost regardless of the situation, it is unlikely that you could safely control your motorcycle and fire accurately at the same time.

Here's why:

Assume you can draw and shoot left handed, and maintain throttle with your right hand.

Assume you're right next to the target, and shooting left. Anyone with half a brain, on seeing your gun, will swerve right into you. Even if you hit, you're dead. Riding next to someone trying to kill you just so you can take a shot is the dumbest thing you could do. So that scenario is out.

Ok, let's assume you're behind him. Now he can't hit you -- and you aren't in immediate danger. You can't use deadly force. That scenario is out, too.

The last possibility: assume you're in front of him. You are threatened, arguably. You have to steer, run the throttle, and ensure that you aren't going to run into anything, while at the same time turning halfway around and firing on a moving target with your (in 90% of cases) non-dominant hand. So, are you good to shoot? I'd say no. I'm a great rider, and a pretty good shot. I don't think I'd feel safe taking a shot -- both for myself and for others on the road.

Here's the real rub, though: why aren't you retreating? As other posters have noted, you're on a vehicle that will out-accelerate, out-maneuver, and out-brake everything except another motorcycle. And you're in front. I can think of almost no situation where you couldn't retreat. Unless you're riding a 250cc and he's in a Porsche Twin Turbo you're going to hose him. If you're on anything 500cc or bigger, it doesn't matter what he's driving, you're going to smoke him. Almost any import bike (street, sport, or cruiser, except for the Goldwing) is going to run sub-12 second quarter miles. No car can touch that. Any domestic bike is going to run sub-13 or 14. Hell, my Honda ST1300 is a 700lb shaft drive touring pig with big ole' saddlebags and I run in the high 11s on it, with 0-60 times in the mid 3s range. And I'm not even fast -- I imagine someone truly skilled could get close to 11 flat. There isn't a stock car made that can come close. Or do you think guys in McLarens have nothing better to do than try to run you down?

If it's a straight run, pin the throttle and run him out. If you're in traffic, lane split and he's done. Or move into the break-down lane, get another car between you, and stop. He'll blow past you. It is probably easiest, though, to simply get off the road. Get to a stop as quickly as possible. Then deal with him if he stops.

All of the above was pretty much confirmed the other day. I was riding on my way to work and a guy in an SUV tried to hit me -- no joke. He came up behind me at 80+ (I was going about 55-60), swerved into the left lane, and then turned right into me. I pinned both brakes and countersteered onto the shoulder (I never appreciated ABS until that moment), barely maintaining control of the bike. At the closest point, my left knee was within a foot of his rear bumper -- it was that close. From the moment I saw him move, until I was on the shoulder took less than half of a second. I can say that there was absolutely no chance whatsoever of me doing anything to avoid being killed but getting the hell out of the way.

I pulled up next to him at the next light (having no clue what the hell his problem was). The only words out of my mouth were "Dude, what the hell?" He rolled down his window, screamed something about me almost hitting his mirror, threatened to kick his door open on me the next time so he gets me, and drove off.

I've never, in 12 years of street riding (25 years if you count offroad) had someone intentionally try to hit me. I got his plate and reported him to the state police.

Anyway, this pretty much confirms my position. To those of you who ride, ride safe. This is my second encounter with road rage in the past month -- I don't know what the hell is in the air, but people are getting fucking crazy out there.

On a vaguely related note, if anyone would like to hook up and ride around the back roads of SE Pa., shoot me a message.

**axmdr40** · May 30th, 2007, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

I
This is my second encounter with road rage in the past month -- I don't know what the hell is in the air, but people are getting fucking crazy out there.

Jersey has a leak....and its oozing into Eastern Pa.

**BearTitan** · May 30th, 2007, 12:17 PM

No common courtesy and value for human life on the roads today. I once "read" about a biker who would keep a few ball bearings in his jacket pocket for just such an occasion. They either bounce into the windshield or go into the radiator of the car behind "him".

Not that I am condoning that sort of thing...

**crffl** · May 30th, 2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

I got his plate and reported him to the state police.

Cuirious would come of that ? Will the police 'do' anything ? Can they 'do' anything or is it basically to get the incident on record in case of a future run in ?

P.S. What do you ride ?

ETA

84 Aspencade
85 Suzuki Madura
01 V-Star Classic

.

**RandomTask** · May 30th, 2007, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

It has been my position that you have almost no chance of effectively, or legally, using deadly force from a motorcycle. Almost regardless of the situation, it is unlikely that you could safely control your motorcycle and fire accurately at the same time....

You obviously never saw Mission Impossible 2!

**BearTitan** · May 30th, 2007, 01:28 PM

I read this article a few years ago. I just found it after reading your thread

http://www.chuckhawks.com/motorcycle_firearms.htm

That is taking prepared to the next level.

**Rule10b5** · May 30th, 2007, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by crffl

Cuirious would come of that ? Will the police 'do' anything ? Can they 'do' anything or is it basically to get the incident on record in case of a future run in ?

P.S. What do you ride ?

ETA

84 Aspencade
85 Suzuki Madura
01 V-Star Classic

.

I'm riding an '07 Honda ST1300. I thought about the Goldwing (I always like the Aspencade) but decided to go with something sportbikeish. The new ones are nice, but they're pushing Honda Civic size. I figured the ST1300 is a happy medium between the Goldwing and the VFR800. I picked this one up about a month ago -- I have about 2500 miles on it already.

They're tracking down the guy now -- I spoke to the Trooper. What he did was assault (or attempted murder, technically) so he's going to get a major ass reaming from the State Trooper. He could be arrested and prosecuted on felony assault, with a likely conviction, but quite honestly, I just want it made absolutely clear to him that this sort of behavior is unacceptable.

The funny thing is that due to the way the laws are written, he can't be cited for reckless or a moving violation by the Trooper (because there is no physical evidence and no officer witnessed it) but he can be arrested on felony assault (because a credible complaint is enough). Odd, isn't it?

BearTitan -- That Chuck Hawks article is hysterical.

I'm pretty damn good on a bike, and I'm a good shot, but even someone as arrogant as I am would be hard pressed to think they could ever take a shot from a bike, regardless of gun or practice.

I'm still chuckling

**Skuggi** · May 30th, 2007, 01:39 PM

Just install side mounted rocket launchers like james bond

Seriously though, Drivers are getting fucking insane!

On another note:

I too plan to get a bike one of these days probably after college. Problem is I dont know anyone except my cousin in NC who rides. How hard is it to pick up? I can drive a stick (it's been awhile but I can). And I was a mountain biker + did bmx dirt jumping.

**Coustain** · May 30th, 2007, 01:44 PM

In theory it is nearly impossible to fire effectively from a motorcycle, but I would imagine with practice anything is possible. I have a 2005 500cc Ninjer and it will do a 1/4 mile in 12.43 seconds (and will be doing 102 MPH), even for a weakling jap bike, it will outrun anything stock on 4 wheels that costs under 100k.

In other words, I opt for the outrun option.

**BearTitan** · May 30th, 2007, 01:46 PM

Skuggi, Take the PA Motorcycle Safety class. It is free and is a great way to learn the fundamentals. THEY PROVIDE THE BIKES, so you could take the class this summer. You can take it as a refresher any time you like. I highly recommend it both for beginners and for the quasi-experienced who do not have a license yet. At the end of the course, you take your license test.

Once you get your own bike, you can take the advanced rider course, which is also free, and excellent. Can't be too prepared. They are all trying to kill us.

http://www.pamsp.com/