NO firearms sign in borough park.

**JGeezer1986** · July 5th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Went to a family reunion/4th party an Lorain Borough Park, Johnstown PA yesterday (July 4th). I was planning on OC. When i got out of my van, there posted on a tree was a sign "No hunting or firearms. $10 - $100 fine" Just for the fact that i was a family outing with family members that i have not seen for many years, i left "Tiff" In locked in the van. Later i met with the park keeper and his wife. He left in a hurry but the wife stuck around a little while and i asked her about the sign. I Pointed out to her that i did not believe it was legal to forbid firearms in the park due to the fact that it was owned by the borough. I told her i wanted to research it before i told her a definate answer. Then later , i talked to someone else with the park about the sign. He stated that there was a borough ordinance which supersceeded any state or federal law about firearms in the park.

Thats the majority of the information , and i am going to get back down to the park here this week to get a pic of the sign posted in the park and i am also going to get some more information about the park to make sure that it is not privately owned property.

I want attend a borough meeting this week (i believe on wed) and bring the topic up there about it and was wondering if i could get some information on this law and some things i should take with me to the meeting to present to them. I dont want to walk in empty handed, i want to have solid information for them.

Help would be greatly appreciated.

**PisnNapalm** · July 5th, 2009, 11:03 PM

Ummm... The borough may regulate the discharge of firearms but not the lawful carrying of them.

There have been numerous threads on this topic. Hit the search for related topics.

**whoshisface** · July 5th, 2009, 11:04 PM

read the many premption violation threads. mainly the limerick one. if it is owned by the township they lose if it us privatly owned no fine can be given no law could be passed. pm me and I'll help you change this.

**JCWohlschlag** · July 5th, 2009, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by JGeezer1986

He stated that there was a borough ordinance which supersceeded any state or federal law about firearms in the park.

Apparently some park employees don’t understand what state preemption means.

pre·empt — to replace with something considered to be of greater value or priority; take precedence over.

So, how exactly would a borough ordinance supersede state preemption, which specifically states:

No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

**JGeezer1986** · July 5th, 2009, 11:18 PM

Ok to clarify , i have read through threads on this topic. What i understand (not know) is that parks my restrict discharge of firearms , but can not forbid lawful carry of firearms. What i am looking for is links, or just plain information to take with me to present to the borough about the topic

**PisnNapalm** · July 5th, 2009, 11:21 PM

TITLE 18
PA CRIMES CODES

§6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition.

(a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.

(a. l) No right of action.*

(1) No political subdivision may bring or maintain an action at law or in equity against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abate*ment, injunctive relief or any other relief or remedy resulting from or relating to either the lawful design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition or the lawful marketing or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.

(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit a political subdivision from bringing or maintaining an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the political subdivision.

(b) Definitions.-As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Dealer." The term shall include any person engaged in the business of selling at whole*sale or retail a firearm or ammunition.

"Firearms." This term shall have the meaning given to it in section 5515 (relating to pro*hibiting of paramilitary training) but shall not include air rifles as that term is defined in sec*tion 6304 (relating to sale and use of air rifles).

"Political subdivision." The term shall include any home rule charter municipality, county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or school district.

That pretty much says it all....

**schr8er2000** · July 5th, 2009, 11:40 PM

Start reading here....

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...rleigh-pa.html

YES. it is long... but goes pretty much into depth as to what we did to Hazle Township regarding Community Park....

Most of your questions should be answered there... and if not let us know and we can help you regarding this....

I would start with writing a letter explaining that they are in violation of state law... etc etc..etc... and see where that takes you... if you dont get a response to that then continue with the other options by attending the meeting and voicing the facts to them.. DO NOT expect fast actions... they all drag their feet when it comes to making changes but persistence should prevail in this . GOOD LUCK