religious freedom of speech vs restriction.

**MrsMtnJack** · June 21st, 2009, 07:13 PM

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=573340

DETROIT, MI - A federal judge has denied an evangelical group's request for permission to hand out Christian literature on sidewalks at an Arab festival in Dearborn, Michigan.

U.S. District Judge Nancy Edmunds denied Anaheim, Calif.-based Arabic Christian Perspective's request for a temporary restraining order. The group describes itself in its court filing as "a national ministry established for the purpose of proclaiming the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims ...(that) travels around the country attending and distributing Christian literature at Muslim festivals and mosques."

A lawyer for the group said it would seek a permanent injunction against the city of Dearborn. "It's not over," said Robert J. Muise of the Thomas More Law Center, an Ann Arbor-based Christian rights advocacy group.

Another lawyer on the case said the Dearborn officials action could be part of what he described as a broader Muslim legal attack on critics of Islam in our "Judeo-Christian nation."

"Muslims are using the courts in this country to stop our free speech rights," said William J. Becker Jr., a Los Angeles attorney who has represented a number of prominent critics of Islam.

The 14th annual Dearborn Arab International Festival is expected to draw hundreds of thousands of visitors Friday through Sunday to the city that has the Detroit area's greatest concentration of Arab-Americans.

Festival organizer Fay Beydoun said the evangelical group was being offered a good spot in an area with a number of other religious, nonprofit and political groups. "You have to pass right in front of it to get anywhere," said Beydoun, executive director of the American Arab Chamber of Commerce.

Southeastern Michigan has about 300,000 people with roots in the Arab world. It includes large numbers of both Muslims and Christians.

The group sued Dearborn after police told the Rev. George Saieg members would need to restrict literature distribution to a designated table-and-booth section of the festival site.

The city said safely accommodating the 150,000 daily festival-goers requires limits on where people can leaflet. It said other Christian and Muslim groups already have tables and booths for distributing material at the festival.

City officials say anyone is free to have conversations — but not leaflet — on sidewalks within the festival's barricades.

"It appears to be a legitimate governmental interest for crowd control and safety," Edmunds said in denying the request. "The festival area is more akin to a fair than a normal city street."

Becker said the case is similar to one he handled in Los Angeles, in which Jews for Jesus member Cyril Gordon won about $250,000 after being arrested for trespassing in 2006 outside an Israel Independence Day event in a park. "This is a case where your right, my right and anybody's right to walk down the street and express their views is being disrupted by a police action," he said.

An official of the Council of American-Islamic Relations said Arabic Christian Perspective was asking for special treatment. "They should abide by the rules and purchase a booth like the other religious groups," said Dawud Walid, executive director of the group's Michigan chapter. "Christians can talk about Christianity and Muslims can promote Islam. This is the right we have as Americans."

**d90king** · June 21st, 2009, 07:49 PM

Why can't people just respect other peoples religion, the same way they want their own religion respected?

Why do we always want others to believe like we do? Who knows, maybe they are right...

Just seems like we are always trying to convert others views these days... It used to be that Catholics liked Christians no different than they liked other Catholics...

**YllwFvr** · June 21st, 2009, 08:08 PM

I am not religious, and it doesnt bother me if you are, but PLEASE dont try and shove your beliefs down my throat. Im sorry if that offends anyone, but dont come to my door to try and save me. If I am interested I will go to you.

I think a big Muslim group needs to show up during mass and hand out muslim literature. I bet that would piss them right off.

Freedom of religion, in my eye, is your ability to worship however, whoever, whatever you want. Not force someone else to yours.

**dc dalton** · June 21st, 2009, 08:14 PM

Sorry but I have to agree BIG TIME with d90 .... what is it that makes people HAVE to try and push their views down others throats (or attempt to).

Believe what you want, when you want to believe it ... I don't give two shits if you worship purple leprechauns at 3am in the middle of the forest but for crying out loud leave others to believe what they want to believe (or not to believe). Personally if it were me I would make it a 'simple assault' to bother someone with religious items. Yeah sure it's freedom of speech but it's also aggravating as hell to those that don't want to be bothered by it. It is AS BAD as telemarketers at dinner, the vacuum cleaner salesman at the door and the spam that liters our in boxes!

We went to an Ozzy Osbourne / Marilyn Manson concert years ago and there were a line of people trying to do the same thing, as well as telling us we were all going to hell and to be very honest I was half tempted to beat the living shit out of a few of them!

I am SO sick and tired of people butting into others lives and this is in fact butting into others lives. The Jews believe only they are going to heaven, same with the Christians, and then the Jehovah's Witness have an actual number of them that are going to heaven etc etc etc .... and they ALL think THEY are the 'chosen ones' and insist on converting others .... STOP, mind your own business, take care of your OWN life and for god's sake let others live their lives as they see fit!

**greasy** · June 21st, 2009, 08:16 PM

I think the message that they are trying to get out is that there is right time and place to give out your beliefs. The Muslims simply want to be respected while trying to celebrate theirs. The Christian group is more than welcome to speak out, but they shouldn't ruin the day for a lot of other happy people.

Not to mention trying to convert Muslims is a lost cause. Even if conversion is illegal within Sharia law, 99% of Muslims would NEVER think about converting anyways. These are a proud people.

**LittleRedToyota** · June 21st, 2009, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by d90king

Why can't people just respect other peoples religion, the same way they want their own religion respected?

there is a scene in conan the barbarian that answers that question very nicely...

basically because "my god is greater than your god".

(after all, my god is the everlasting sky...your god lives beneath him. or some other roughly equivalent logic...)

**riverpirate** · June 21st, 2009, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by dc dalton

I don't give two shits if you worship purple leprechauns at 3am in the middle of the forest

Why are following me into the woods ??????

**dc dalton** · June 21st, 2009, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by riverpirate

Why are following me into the woods ??????

You will be receiving a bill this week for monitor cleaning costs ... please remit payment to the address provided ASAP.

**Eugene V. Debs** · June 21st, 2009, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by MrsMtnJack

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=573340

DETROIT, MI - A federal judge has denied an evangelical group's request for permission to hand out Christian literature on sidewalks at an Arab festival in Dearborn, Michigan.

U.S. District Judge Nancy Edmunds denied Anaheim, Calif.-based Arabic Christian Perspective's request for a temporary restraining order. The group describes itself in its court filing as "a national ministry established for the purpose of proclaiming the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims ...(that) travels around the country attending and distributing Christian literature at Muslim festivals and mosques."

Not being allowed to handbill on public sidewalks? This is an outrageous violation of the First Amendment. The organizers of this festival are clearly trying to muzzle th...hold on a minute, what's this below?...

Festival organizer Fay Beydoun said the evangelical group was being offered a good spot in an area with a number of other religious, nonprofit and political groups. "You have to pass right in front of it to get anywhere," said Beydoun, executive director of the American Arab Chamber of Commerce.

Southeastern Michigan has about 300,000 people with roots in the Arab world. It includes large numbers of both Muslims and Christians.

The group sued Dearborn after police told the Rev. George Saieg members would need to restrict literature distribution to a designated table-and-booth section of the festival site.

The city said safely accommodating the 150,000 daily festival-goers requires limits on where people can leaflet. It said other Christian and Muslim groups already have tables and booths for distributing material at the festival.

City officials say anyone is free to have conversations — but not leaflet — on sidewalks within the festival's barricades.

"It appears to be a legitimate governmental interest for crowd control and safety," Edmunds said in denying the request. "The festival area is more akin to a fair than a normal city street."

Oh, I see now...so they actually were not only allowed to handbill but offered a table right at the entrance to do so. So what this is really about is a bunch of asshole Dominionist shits wanting to proselytize obnoxiously and disruptively.

But maybe I'm not being fair, maybe these aren't Dominionists, but are just good Christian folks who just want to spread their faith without being disruptive to any...okay, there's something else below, perhaps I should read it...

Another lawyer on the case said the Dearborn officials action could be part of what he described as a broader Muslim legal attack on critics of Islam in our "Judeo-Christian nation."

"Muslims are using the courts in this country to stop our free speech rights," said William J. Becker Jr., a Los Angeles attorney who has represented a number of prominent critics of Islam.

Ah, "Judeo-Christian nation" and smearing of Muslims as a group...yep, asshole Dominionists alright. Fuck you, Mr. Becker and fuck your asshole clients.

It's pretty clear to me that these shits were less concerned about spreading the Gospel and much more concerned about disrupting the festival and/or committing provocative acts so they can play the victim like they are in this court case. If they really wanted to spread their faith, they'd take the table they were graciously offered and stop taking such an adversarial approach-- ain't gonna win many converts by being obnoxious dickheads. But obviously their real goal here is to fuck up the festival for everyone else.