what would you do?

**The Unknown 1087** · June 20th, 2009, 08:36 PM

I thought about this the other night while I stopped at a Wawa late late late at night on the way back from work. I also thought about after a recent robbery at a Hess gas station were a robber held a knife to the victims throat.

I was inside this wawa with only maybe three other people, and however many employees. So either think of a wawa or a sheetz, it's a big place...and at night, freaky people come out. I always CC in these places when I have to be there at night.

Say you're at one of these places late night, or anytime for that matter and someone comes in to rob it, and they will get what they want at all cost. They have some sort of weapon, either knife, gun, pipe, baseball bat ect, something that could cause serious bodily injury or death.

Suspect comes in, threatens the employee that he will hurt people unless he gets money. What would you do? I know a lot of people say be a good witness, but you can only be a good witness for so long. I know I wouldn't be able to just watch someone get beat up, stabbed, shot.

If the suspect is threatening to harm the employee or other people, I'd wait. If the suspect has already/almost caused harm to someone with a weapon of ANY kind that could cause death/serious injury NOT a gun, I'd draw and tell them to stop and drop it...Their actions after that decides what happens. Because them threatening people around the store involves me.

Or if the suspect has a gun, I don't think I'd honestly give a warning. I'd find a clear shot and take it.

So I am just curious what others would do? Like I said you can only be a good witness for so long, but would you just stay there and watch while someone is seriously hurt and you know you could end it?

**jcabin** · June 20th, 2009, 09:55 PM

Only you can answer that question for yourself at the moment the situation happens. Theres too many factors to answer this. You can get on the phone with 911 and report a robbery in progress while out of sight and if shit goes south then you can choose to intervene in the defense of the employee. You could attract the attack onto yourself by using your cell phone. You could fall to the ground and play dead.

It's up to you. Some places you might be jailed for drawing on a robber while he's doing his job, some places the cops might say good job.

**smithwessn** · June 20th, 2009, 09:55 PM

Waaaayyy too many variables to attempt to predetermine your actions in something like this.

Things to consider include, but not limited to-
1- The weapon the BG has (or claims to have)
2- How desperate or agitated the BG seems to be
3- Distance to the closest victim
4- Distance to the BG
5- Angle of the BG in relation to you
6- What is behind the BG? Think bullet exit angle. If there is a large window behind the BG you need to take into consideration who/what is in the parking lot. (think hunter safety class- be sure of your target and what is beyond it )
7- How easy is it to maneuver yourself to a position without anyone between you and the BG?
8- If you draw, will you be able to pull the trigger if you need to? We would all like to think we can, but you never know.
9- Witnesses. It is less traumatic for that little 8yr old girl to see just a robbery than a shooting. Granted, if the BG is hurting a bystander, then do what is necessary to save a life.

I'm sure there are other things. Those are just off the top of my head.

**The Unknown 1087** · June 20th, 2009, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by jcabin

Only you can answer that question for yourself at the moment the situation happens. Theres too many factors to answer this. You can get on the phone with 911 and report a robbery in progress while out of sight and if shit goes south then you can choose to intervene in the defense of the employee. You could attract the attack onto yourself by using your cell phone. You could fall to the ground and play dead.

It's up to you. Some places you might be jailed for drawing on a robber while he's doing his job, some places the cops might say good job.

Jailed for drawing on a robber? Why?

Originally Posted by smithwessn

Waaaayyy too many variables to attempt to predetermine your actions in something like this.

Things to consider include, but not limited to-
1- The weapon the BG has (or claims to have)
2- How desperate or agitated the BG seems to be
3- Distance to the closest victim
4- Distance to the BG
5- Angle of the BG in relation to you
6- What is behind the BG? Think bullet exit angle. If there is a large window behind the BG you need to take into consideration who/what is in the parking lot. (think hunter safety class- be sure of your target and what is beyond it )
7- How easy is it to maneuver yourself to a position without anyone between you and the BG?
8- If you draw, will you be able to pull the trigger if you need to? We would all like to think we can, but you never know.
9- Witnesses. It is less traumatic for that little 8yr old girl to see just a robbery than a shooting. Granted, if the BG is hurting a bystander, then do what is necessary to save a life.

I'm sure there are other things. Those are just off the top of my head.

Yeah I guess it's my fault that there are too many variables.

If the robber says he has a gun and pretends to, I know I am not going to second guess it and take the chance.

With how desperate/agitated he seems: he either A, has already seriously injured someone, or is about to (makes motion with say a knife to stab them).

Possible victims, either A, not close, or B on the ground.

Robber is in front of of a wall, not glass.

Clear shot would depend on where you were at the time the SHTF to start with. I would have to comply if they tell me to go one place, or lay down, but they are in the open with no chance of hitting anyone else...

**jcabin** · June 20th, 2009, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dane

Jailed for drawing on a robber? Why?

Depends on state law. As far as I know, it's NOT legal to draw on someone who is committing a felony crime if nobodys life is in danger. Some states like texas, you are allowed to intervene with lethal force even if nobodys life is endangered, here in PA that is not the case.

However, if you really believe the clerk's life is in danger, go ahead and do what you must.

I'm just giving some legal background. It could be argued the clerks life was not in danger even if there is a guy standing there menacingly dropping a baseball bat repeatedly into his hand.

**Tequila Sunrise** · June 20th, 2009, 11:09 PM

I posted before on another thread about my Dad getting robbed and then shot at until he pulled his own gun and retaliated sending the cowards running. I didn't like that happening to him but it did. So personally I would not like to see it happen to anyone if at all possible. I'd pick my spot or die trying. I'll face the Piper later. Hesitation can get you killed. I know your story has too many variables but I get what you're trying to say. The guy is just going to hurt somebody period. So that's my answer as I make my split decision.

**The Unknown 1087** · June 20th, 2009, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by jcabin

Depends on state law. As far as I know, it's NOT legal to draw on someone who is committing a felony crime if nobodys life is in danger. Some states like texas, you are allowed to intervene with lethal force even if nobodys life is endangered, here in PA that is not the case.

However, if you really believe the clerk's life is in danger, go ahead and do what you must.

I'm just giving some legal background. It could be argued the clerks life was not in danger even if there is a guy standing there menacingly dropping a baseball bat repeatedly into his hand.

True...That's why I said in the first post if they have a weapon thats not a gun and they are threatening them, I'd wait. However, if they took a swing, and it connected that would have to be the time to act. AFIK you're allowed to defend a third person. A robber with a gun though (that's visible), to me that's no holds bars once their weapon is pointed into my direction.

Sorry this post is either A really pointless, or B stupid. It just had me thinking the other night.

Tequila Sunrise,

Sorry about that happening to your dad, that sucks a lot.

**Tequila Sunrise** · June 20th, 2009, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dane

True...That's why I said in the first post if they have a weapon thats not a gun and they are threatening them, I'd wait. However, if they took a swing, and it connected that would have to be the time to act. AFIK you're allowed to defend a third person. A robber with a gun though (that's visible), to me that's no holds bars once their weapon is pointed into my direction.

Sorry this post is either A really pointless, or B stupid. It just had me thinking the other night.

Tequila Sunrise,

Sorry about that happening to your dad, that sucks a lot.

Thank you, it was a long time ago. I was only 16 when this happened. But I can tell you if he didn't have a gun, I wouldn't be calling him tomorrow for Fathers day. So people can argue back and forth about guns, from that moment on I knew exactly where I stood on that issue.

**The Unknown 1087** · June 20th, 2009, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tequila Sunrise

Thank you, it was a long time ago. I was only 16 when this happened. But I can tell you if he didn't have a gun, I wouldn't be calling him tomorrow for Fathers day. So people can argue back and forth about guns, from that moment on I knew exactly where I stood on that issue.

Atleast he was prepared

**clhaberle** · June 20th, 2009, 11:29 PM

If you are cc, do not draw your weapon until you need it (lives being threatened). When you do, use it. Attempting to use your weapon to control a situation with fear or try to make others disarm is adding additional danger to the situation for yourself and others. Of corse IMO.

A few exeptions exist such as a person with a knife threatening others 50 feet away.