Legislation - Terror Watch List = No Gun Purchases

[Cookster]

Another brick in the wall. . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/us...gewanted=print[

June 20, 2009
On Terrorist Watch List, but Allowed to Buy Guns
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
WASHINGTON — People on the government’s terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them, according to a new government report.

In one case, a person on the list was able to buy more than 50 pounds of explosives.

The new statistics, compiled in a report from the Government Accountability Office that is scheduled for public release next week, draw attention to an odd divergence in federal law: people placed on the government’s terrorist watch list can be stopped from getting on a plane or getting a visa, but they cannot be stopped from buying a gun.

Gun purchases must be approved unless federal officials can find some other disqualification of the would-be buyer, like being a felon, an illegal immigrant or a drug addict.

“This is a glaring omission, and it’s a security issue,” Senator Frank R. Lautenberg, the New Jersey Democrat who requested the study, said in an interview.

Mr. Lautenberg plans to introduce legislation on Monday that would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists.

The government’s consolidated watch list, used to identify people suspected of links to terrorists, has grown to more than one million names since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. It also has drawn widespread criticism over the prevalence of mistaken identities and unclear links to terrorism.

A report in May from the Justice Department inspector general found that the list kept by the Federal Bureau of Investigation carried the names of 24,000 people included on the basis of outdated or sometimes irrelevant information.

Gun rights advocates said showing up on a terrorist watch list should not be grounds for being denied a gun.

“We’re concerned about the quality and the integrity of the list,” said Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association. “There have been numerous studies and reports questioning the integrity, and we believe law-abiding people who are on the list by error should not be arbitrarily denied their civil rights” under the Second Amendment.

Mr. Lautenberg introduced a similar gun-control measure in 2007, but it stalled after opposition from the N.R.A. The senator attributed the outcome to “knuckling under to the gun lobby.”

Mr. Arulanandam said the gun lobby would have to examine the details of the newest proposal before taking a position. But he added: “Senator Lautenberg has always been on the wrong side of the Second Amendment. His approach is not in the interests of public safety.”

The G.A.O. study found an increase in the last few years in the number of gun purchase requests and approvals for people on the terrorist watch list.

From February 2004 through February 2009, the report found, there were 963 requests for gun purchases through the federal system by people on the list. Of that group, 865 purchases — or 90 percent — were approved after a three-day review by the F.B.I. failed to turn up any other disqualifying factors.

A narrower study by the G.A.O. in 2005 first drew public attention to the issue. The Justice Department took some limited steps to address the issue, centralizing the review of gun purchases by those on watch lists to ensure that all possible disqualifiers were being considered.

Nonetheless, the rate of approval for requests to buy a gun went up from 80 percent in 2005 to the new study’s 90 percent. Officials were searching for explanations for the increase, which might reflect the overall growth in both the number of people on the watch list and of gun purchases.

The names of the people on the watch list are secret, and Mr. Lautenberg said he was frustrated by the F.B.I.’s refusal to disclose to investigators details and specific cases of gun purchases beyond the aggregate data.

The senator said that getting a better understanding of who is being allowed to buy guns and how people are connected to terrorism would help assess the need for legislative remedies.

The G.A.O. reported that the Justice Department in the Obama administration, however, was “noncommital” about whether it would develop guidelines if Congress moved to give the attorney general discretion to block such gun sales.

And mind you, how someone qualifies to get on TWL is 'secret'. Good luck ever clearing your name if you wind up on it by mistake.

It's all coming together now. . .

Rob

[Philbert]

There go that "gun lobby" again. What about the "due process" lobby?

From February 2004 through February 2009, the report found, there were 963 requests for gun purchases through the federal system by people on the list. Of that group, 865 purchases — or 90 percent — were approved after a three-day review by the F.B.I. failed to turn up any other disqualifying factors.

And the number of violent crimes committed by these individuals with their legally purchased firearms is...?

[Morel42]

Considering the damn thing has well over 1 million names (by now) on the thing.. I'm really not shocked.

/sigh

Every day Switzerland looks better and better...

[kadar]

/sigh

Every day Switzerland looks better and better...

How do you expect to get there with your name on the list?

[Eugene V. Debs]

Unfortunately this is not just a gun control issue-- it's a due process issue and this country has been increasingly moving towards a legal system where one is guilty until proven innocent. The Drug War and Federal anti-organized crime activities have fucked up a lot and moved us increasingly towards a police state.

We already have the highest incarceration rate in the world (total AND per-capita), large parts of the Constitution have been eviscerated by a combination of bad statutes, bad executive policies and bad court decisions-- and yet we still have tons of clowns in Congress on both sides of the aisle who want to further erode due process, build more jails, put more militarized police on the street, and enact even MORE laws criminalizing new activity.

[Morel42]

How do you expect to get there with your name on the list?

Which name?

[camper]

Which name?

That comment alone gets you your own investigator to shadow you until he finds them all out

camper

[cgbudde]

Yea give the Attorney General more power he doesn't need. This government would like to put all gun owners on the terrorist watch list.

[camper]

Yea give the Attorney General more power he doesn't need. This government would like to put all gun owners on the terrorist watch list.

If you generally oppose gay marriage, are against abortion, and believe that at some point there will be a one-world government and each independant country is steadily moving in that direction, all you have to be is Christian and you make that list.

Want a gun? Swear everlasting loyalty to this administration (or the administration that finally does what this one is trying to do) and you'll maybe be allowed to get one. 5-shot .22 revolvers in just 9 months time, for 2k and the names of of 3 people who are potential terrorists.

camper

[cigarmanpa]

i saw him say that in a documentary i was watching last week....made my blood boil