Guns drawn and surrounded by 12 of moon townships finest tonight

[Neo31rex31]

I know one thing, after reading your misadventure. If I see a cop who I even slightly suspect is about to have an encounter with me, I am hitting the record button on my voice recorder.

Figures that was the one night when i forgot mine at home

[angus]

i believe he was pokin fun at the cop's way of saying put your hands up. The cop told him to "put em up" Sounds like a 1940's gangster movie.

That was it.

Anyway, sounds like you handled the situation well.

I am a bit disturbed as to why the officers seem to have no problem running the non-registry as a registry, and to make it part of their official report when they are supposedly prohibited by law from doing so.

[son of the revolution]

That was it.

Anyway, sounds like you handled the situation well.

I am a bit disturbed as to why the officers seem to have no problem running the non-registry as a registry, and to make it part of their official report when they are supposedly prohibited by law from doing so.

Probably because they figure the sheep are to dumb to call them on it and therefore have gotten quite complacent in admitting using it .

[mjfletcher]

That was it.

Anyway, sounds like you handled the situation well.

I am a bit disturbed as to why the officers seem to have no problem running the non-registry as a registry, and to make it part of their official report when they are supposedly prohibited by law from doing so.

Probably because they figure the sheep are to dumb to call them on it and therefore have gotten quite complacent in admitting using it .

Sounds like it might be time for firearm owners across the state (espeicially those who've had their firearms checked against the Non-DB) to once again challenge the legality of the DB to either get it completely eliminated, or require any and all checks against it to be done via paper request made direct to the PSP so it can't be used as a registry.

[edstephan]

Well I do have the originals that Moon Township sent that clearly state that they ran the firearm through the PSP database.
Also I have forwarded it to Kim Stolfer to see what remedies we can pursue.





An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%
Ed Stephan

[SgtStreb]

Ok I'm kinda new to this forum and people use acronyms that I don't fully understand. What is everybody talking about when referring to these databases?

[normanvin]

Ok I'm kinda new to this forum and people use acronyms that I don't fully understand. What is everybody talking about when referring to these databases?

The sate police tried to create a registration data base. They were sued over it. They lost. They can not keep a gun registration data base. They now call it a sales data base.

This data base is a "failure". It is not all inclusive. It does not include items that were brought into Pa. from people moving here from another state, gifted items.

Here is the laws that they and we must follow.
http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

[Mr_Anderson]

Ok I'm kinda new to this forum and people use acronyms that I don't fully understand. What is everybody talking about when referring to these databases?

The PSP keeps a SALES requored of every handgun bought in PA. The courts have ruled that they can not have a registration database but that dose not seem to stop them from using / thinking the SALES database which is incomplete to be legal as a incomplete registration database. So when the police run the SN# of a gun and it comes back with someone else name or no name at all which could happen for any number of legal reasons. They sometime freak out and illegal seizure private property arrest the owner and so on. The charges do no stick most of the time and they are let go. If you want to read up on this Old Country Buffet Posts
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...a-page-21.html

If I am wrong in the Info above Please feel free to correct me.

[mjfletcher]

Ok I'm kinda new to this forum and people use acronyms that I don't fully understand. What is everybody talking about when referring to these databases?

Others have already replied, but here's why there is no registration of firearms in PA.

§ 6111.4. Registration of firearms.
Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary,
nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any
government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to
create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership
within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only,
the term "firearm" shall include any weapon that is designed to
or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the
action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such
weapon.
(June 13, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1024, No.17, eff. 120 days)

[JCWohlschlag]

Ok I'm kinda new to this forum and people use acronyms that I don't fully understand.

I’m not really sure what acronyms or abbreviations threw you off. Let us know what acronyms or abbreviations you need clarified, and I am sure we will fill you in promtly.

What is everybody talking about when referring to these databases?

In addition to what the above members have said…

• An actual firearms registry is illegal in Pennsylvania as per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms).
• The Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) keep a database of all 18 Pa.C.S. § 6102 “firearms” (which is everything except for long barreled rifles or long barreled shotguns) sales within Pennsylvania. When you purchase a firearm, the Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) dealer fills out a record of sale form (SP4-113) and sends it to the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) as per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111 (b)(1).
• The record of sale database was implemented so that Pennsylvania law enforcement would have a starting point when tracing a firearm. They would have a record of the last Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) dealer that particular firearm passed through, and could go to that dealer and check their books to further trace the firearm.
• The problem arises because municipal law enforcement is using the record of sale database as a registry instead of for its actual purpose. Since handguns can enter Pennsylvania without record simply when people move here from other states and bring their handguns with them, and since handguns can be transferred between married spouses, parents and children, and grandparents and grandchildren without any paperwork whatsoever, the record of sale database obviously does not contain every handgun in Pennsylvania (which is the focus of why the court ruled the database not to be an illegal registry in the first place). So, for municipal police officers to use the database as a registry, and take actions such as confiscating firearms that return with a lack of or a different recorded owner, presents a serious conflict of interest regarding this database.

I think that covers most of the “registry versus sales database” issue. There may be some finer points I forgot to mention.