Open carry and what you should know before you do it

[inspector710]

This is a great thread. It should be updated to include the additional states now honoring Pa's. License To Carry Firearms.

[john12wa]

Im 18 and I have one question on the wording of this paragraph. "it appears you may be covered if the vehicle you are operating is registered to you, your spouse, or your parent, and your spouse, or parent, owns the firearm and has a LTCF. I would say that using this to drive somewhere to OC is a no-go, as the firearm could not have been loaned to you without a LTCF, and it is obviously not yours by transfer, if it belongs to someone else.). YOU MAY NOT JUST DECIDE TO GO OC, UNLOAD THE FIREARM FOR YOUR RIDE TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING(like to the grocery store), AND THEN LOAD UP AND OC WHEN YOU GET THERE"
I read this as i can OC but i cant transport the firearm to OC in public. That i can only transport to OC for said lawful activity? ( hunting, target shooting etc) Can you clarify. i understand that since i cant get a LTCF i cant carry in a vehicle and i must unload and seperate said firearm.



"***A quick word on OC'ing under the age of 21***
[COLOR="Blue"]It is perfectly legal to OC once you have turned 18, as long as you are not an otherwise prohibited person. There are problems that will arise from doing so, that you need to address before you do it, though. The most common is because you are not old enough to possess a LTCF, you may not get in any vehicle, including a bus or taxi, except for a very few, very specific exceptions. These include, but are not limited to, if you are going directly to, or coming directly from a place where you will be, or have been, engaged in target practice, if you have unloaded the firearm and separated the ammunition[6106(b)(4)], and it appears you may be covered if the vehicle you are operating is registered to you, your spouse, or your parent, and your spouse, or parent, owns the firearm and has a LTCF[6106(b)(13)](I would say that using this to drive somewhere to OC is a no-go, as the firearm could not have been loaned to you without a LTCF, and it is obviously not yours by transfer, if it belongs to someone else.). YOU MAY NOT JUST DECIDE TO GO OC, UNLOAD THE FIREARM FOR YOUR RIDE TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING(like to the grocery store), AND THEN LOAD UP AND OC WHEN YOU GET THERE, again, except for a very few, very specific instances which are excepted."

[twency]

Im 18 and I have one question on the wording of this paragraph. "it appears you may be covered if the vehicle you are operating is registered to you, your spouse, or your parent, and your spouse, or parent, owns the firearm and has a LTCF. I would say that using this to drive somewhere to OC is a no-go, as the firearm could not have been loaned to you without a LTCF, and it is obviously not yours by transfer, if it belongs to someone else.). YOU MAY NOT JUST DECIDE TO GO OC, UNLOAD THE FIREARM FOR YOUR RIDE TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING(like to the grocery store), AND THEN LOAD UP AND OC WHEN YOU GET THERE"
I read this as i can OC but i cant transport the firearm to OC in public. That i can only transport to OC for said lawful activity? ( hunting, target shooting etc) Can you clarify. i understand that since i cant get a LTCF i cant carry in a vehicle and i must unload and seperate said firearm.



"***A quick word on OC'ing under the age of 21***
It is perfectly legal to OC once you have turned 18, as long as you are not an otherwise prohibited person. There are problems that will arise from doing so, that you need to address before you do it, though. The most common is because you are not old enough to possess a LTCF, you may not get in any vehicle, including a bus or taxi, except for a very few, very specific exceptions. These include, but are not limited to, if you are going directly to, or coming directly from a place where you will be, or have been, engaged in target practice, if you have unloaded the firearm and separated the ammunition[6106(b)(4)], and it appears you may be covered if the vehicle you are operating is registered to you, your spouse, or your parent, and your spouse, or parent, owns the firearm and has a LTCF[6106(b)(13)](I would say that using this to drive somewhere to OC is a no-go, as the firearm could not have been loaned to you without a LTCF, and it is obviously not yours by transfer, if it belongs to someone else.). YOU MAY NOT JUST DECIDE TO GO OC, UNLOAD THE FIREARM FOR YOUR RIDE TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING(like to the grocery store), AND THEN LOAD UP AND OC WHEN YOU GET THERE, again, except for a very few, very specific instances which are excepted."

"I read this as i can OC but i cant transport the firearm [by vehicle] to OC in public."

Correct. You may only transport the firearm in a vehicle for one of the specifically excepted activities (e.g. going to/from home, range, gun store, gunsmith, etc. see 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106 (b)(4) and (b)(8) for details). You are not allowed to simply "unload and separate" the ammo and transport the firearm to wherever you want to OC (or any other unexcepted activity) by vehicle. When transporting under the exceptions you do have to unload it, and other than when going to/from the place of target shooting or point of assembly for target shooting it also has to be in "a secure wrapper", which is probably a good idea anyway when not carrying.

You may transport your firearm by vehicle in PA with a permit from any state (even one which doesn't have reciprocity with PA for carrying concealed - yes, I realize that doesn't seem to make sense, but it's because the exception for carrying under a reciprocal permit is worded differently than the exception for vehicle transport with a permit). Not all states issue to persons 18-21, but if you can obtain an out-of-state permit from one that does then you're good to go as far as vehicle transport.

You still won't be allowed to CC (or carry openly in Philadelphia, or carry during a state of emergency) unless you obtain an out-of-state permit honored by PA for reciprocity purposes, and even then you still won't be allowed to carry within 1000' of a K-12 school in PA period without a PA LTCF (due to federal law - to carry within 1000' of a K-12 school you must have a license from that school's state), which you can't obtain until you're 21.

It sucks, I know. You're old enough to carry weapons and die for your country in a foreign land, to vote for the leader of the free world, and to convict a person of a capital crime as part of a jury, but not old enough to be trusted to drink a beer or obtain a PA license to carry firearms. It doesn't make sense, but it's the way it is.

[john12wa]

Ok, thank you very much. I understand that now, and yes i find it intresting that im unable to transport firearms outside of sporting.
Your last sentance brings up a good point, im planning on becoming a PA State Trooper, which i have to go to college for, but including that you have to be 21 at the time upon entering the acadmey to comply with PA laws just to carry a pistol. When my best friend is enlisted into the Marines and will be able to "play" with full auto weaponry and i would assume A LOT more goodies just a few weeks after we graduate high school.

Thanks again.

[Pizz65]

If I don't have a CC permit and it's not legal to carry in a car is it legal to OC on a motorcycle?

[98valkyrie]

If I don't have a CC permit and it's not legal to carry in a car is it legal to OC on a motorcycle?

Nope, a vehicle is a vehicle. In this case motorcycles are classified the same as cars. As such, you need to have a LTCF if you want to OC or CC on a motorcycle.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

[ByblosHex]

If I don't have a CC permit and it's not legal to carry in a car is it legal to OC on a motorcycle?

Case law has come to define that statute to apply to any conveyance which technically includes motorcycles, horses and probably even bicycles and skateboard.

[northernlights]

I should like to note that for OC under 21, if it is a "weapon other than a firearm" (rifle or shotgun), you can put it in a vehicle as long as you unload it first and keep the magazine out of the same container, if you put the gun in a container.

EDIT: And also, technically, no LTCF is required to conceal a rifle or shotgun. So you could sling your AK and throw a jacket over it and that's fine.

[BlueTrooper]

About the "transporting" to a public place to OC. As I understand it, as long as you're over 18 you can legally transport firearms, if it is unloaded and secured in a seperate place, and that the mags are unloaded and the ammo is stored in a sperate location without the need of a LTCF. With that understanding, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, couldn't you use secured lockable gun boxs to transport the firearm and ammo from place to place and then OC when you get to your desired location?
Say an 18 -20 year old wants to go run errands in town, wants to OC while running those errands, but needs to drive to the town. Couldn't they use two lockable gun boxs, one for ammo and mags, and the other for the firearm, and unload before they left and then loaded up when they got into town? Then did the reverse when they were getting ready to leave the town?

[ungawa]

About the "transporting" to a public place to OC. As I understand it, as long as you're over 18 you can legally transport firearms, if it is unloaded and secured in a seperate place, and that the mags are unloaded and the ammo is stored in a sperate location without the need of a LTCF. With that understanding, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, couldn't you use secured lockable gun boxs to transport the firearm and ammo from place to place and then OC when you get to your desired location?
Say an 18 -20 year old wants to go run errands in town, wants to OC while running those errands, but needs to drive to the town. Couldn't they use two lockable gun boxs, one for ammo and mags, and the other for the firearm, and unload before they left and then loaded up when they got into town? Then did the reverse when they were getting ready to leave the town?

You cannot transport a handgun by vehicle to any place except a range, gunsmith, etc. unless you have LTCF. Unloaded, taken apart, no ammo, filled with cement and encased inside a lead bar, doesn't matter.

For example, if you don't live with your parents, you cannot legally transport a handgun by vehicle to your father's house to show him. No matter what. Unless you have LTCF.