Complicated gun loan question

[PennsyPlinker]

I am well aware that I can loan a handgun to another person in PA who has a LTCF. But I have a question that gets way more complicated, and I am not even sure where to look, or if anyone has an answer. So I am posting my question here. Is it legal for me to loan a gun to a person in another state for use in a third state?

The person in the other state has his carry permit, or whatever they call it in Ohio. He is also related to me through marriage. He would be carrying it, for the vast majority of the time, on private property (church camp) in West Virginia. There is no problem with the people at the camp. His boss down there actually loaned him one of his guns when he was there a couple of weeks ago. So whose law might cover any of this, or is it too complicated for anyone to parse?

[bdevil73]

Good question. I've often wondered the same thing, as I have family in Ohio as well. Here's one more twist for you. My brother-in-law lives on Ohio and has an Ohio CHP and a PA LTCF. Since he has an LTCF, is that enough for me to loan him a gun?

[General Geoff]

It is likely that any interstate loan would be considered by the feds to be a transfer of ownership, and thus would require the services of an FFL.

[GunLawyer001]

It is likely that any interstate loan would be considered by the feds to be a transfer of ownership, and thus would require the services of an FFL.

I believe he's right. You'd have to be in compliance with the laws of all 3 (perhaps 4) jurisdictions. PA would allow you to lend to another PA resident with an LTCF, but the Feds wouldn't allow an interstate transfer.

I have no opinion on the laws of the other state(s) involved, but it doesn't matter since the Feds stopped the loan anyway.

[PennsyPlinker]

I believe he's right. You'd have to be in compliance with the laws of all 3 (perhaps 4) jurisdictions. PA would allow you to lend to another PA resident with an LTCF, but the Feds wouldn't allow an interstate transfer.

I have no opinion on the laws of the other state(s) involved, but it doesn't matter since the Feds stopped the loan anyway.

I sort of figured this would be the reality of the situation. Thanks Phil, for your opinion on this (thanks to you Geoff also). My SIL is doing some work for a church camp where the land is replete with copperheads. He has already had opportunity to dispatch at least one. But his own carry choices are limited to a Kel Tec P3AT or a S&W 629. Neither is exactly suitable for what he needs. The P3AT is tiny and an auto loader, so snake shot doesn't do so well when it comes time to cycle the action. The 629 is ideal for this type of work but it weighs a ton. We talked about him using my S&W 386 PD which is about perfect for both light weight and big punch in a revolver, but it sounds like more trouble than it is worth. And while I am fond of him, he ain't getting my snubbie until I am in a box for good.

[HiredGoon]

If I read this correctly, an interstate loan is permitted "for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes". What do you all think of this? See # 5 below.

FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful:

(1) or any person:

(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce;or

(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that:

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received;and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

(B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and

(C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or anypossession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States;

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(4) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreledrifle, except as specifically authorized by the Secretary consistent with public safety and necessity;

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[GunLawyer001]

If I read this correctly, an interstate loan is permitted "for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes". What do you all think of this? See # 5 below.

. . .

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

. . .

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

I haven't really researched this issue, but I believe the intent is to allow a visitor to borrow a gun while in your state. Paragraph (3) would get in the way of the interstate loan.

The Feds really don't like you crossing state borders with guns, since that's the only legitimate area that the Commerce Clause allows them to regulate.

[PennsyPlinker]

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Well that looks promising! Shooting snakes seems to be a lawful sporting purpose, right? And I was wrong about him shooting one copperhead. He has had to shoot four already using a loaner from the camp director.

[riverpirate]

My question is why does he have to shoot them? First relocating them is simple to do all it takes is a stick and a bag. If he's worried that kids may run into them even though they are relocated then that same stick can be used to whack them.
Not doubting the use of the gun, just wondering why kill it if it can just be moved?

[HiredGoon]

Wonder if shooting a bad guy in self defense is considered a "lawful sporting purpose"?