New Shooter's Accuracy?

[SHJ]

Mods, please move this if it's in the wrong place.

I took my Rossi 851 (.38 Special, 4" barrel) out to Sunset Hill today...it was my first time shooting, and I'm really curious as to how well I did and what measures I can take in the future to improve my accuracy. Unfortunately, I didn't think to bring a camera with me.

The instructor put the target out at four yards. I fired 56 rounds total, and only one of them went dead center. Most everything else was in a 6" or so vertical group (just like I'd sliced a piece out of the target) about 2-3" under the bullseye. So what I'm saying is, I was pretty well horizontally centered, but I was consistently placing rounds too low. A co-worker told me this is referred to as "zippering."

It didn't seem to matter whether I aligned my sights with the bullseye or placed them just under the bullseye -- they all went low. Is this an indication that I need to raise my sights?

I realize that this is all terribly vague without pictures, but I'd just like to hear a few opinions. Thanks for being patient.

ETA: I was shooting SA, by the way. The only double action shot I tried went way off to the right -- that's an issue I'll work on at another time, though. I just wanted to find a comfortable grip/stance my first time out.

[andrewjs18]

Mods, please move this if it's in the wrong place.

I took my Rossi 851 (.38 Special, 4" barrel) out to Sunset Hill today...it was my first time shooting, and I'm really curious as to how well I did and what measures I can take in the future to improve my accuracy. Unfortunately, I didn't think to bring a camera with me.

The instructor put the target out at four yards. I fired 56 rounds total, and only one of them went dead center. Most everything else was in a 6" or so vertical group (just like I'd sliced a piece out of the target) about 2-3" under the bullseye. So what I'm saying is, I was pretty well horizontally centered, but I was consistently placing rounds too low. A co-worker told me this is referred to as "zippering."

It didn't seem to matter whether I aligned my sights with the bullseye or placed them just under the bullseye -- they all went low. Is this an indication that I need to raise my sights?

I realize that this is all terribly vague without pictures, but I'd just like to hear a few opinions. Thanks for being patient.

a lot of factors can come into play with this...it could be how much finger you got on the trigger, if your jerking etc. etc.

I'll let 1 of the better shooters help you out here like Lycanthrope..

[GoldWinger]

I've never heard of "zippering," it's usually called "vertical stringing" Vertical stringing can be caused by a number of factors. Low shots can be caused by you looking at the target instead of the front sight, you drop the muzzle to see the target. Another possiblitity is that you are "pushing" the gun toward the target in anticipation of recoil.


Zippering . . . that's new one on me.

[GuyMontag]

It sounds like you're breaking your wrist. Your job is to hold a quality sight picture while pulling the trigger directly to the rear. I've attached a chart that you can keep with you to help you diagnose where you might be having problems.


Right-Handed Shooting Issues.pdf

Left-Handed Shooting Issues.pdf

[SHJ]

Another possiblitity is that you are "pushing" the gun toward the target in anticipation of recoil.

I'm not going to rule that out, but I don't think that's the problem. I was actually surprised at how little recoil there was -- I just sort of blinked in surprise after my first shot. If it wasn't for the bang, I would never have thought I just fired a handgun. I relaxed myself quite a bit after squeezing off that first shot.

[SHJ]

It sounds like you're breaking your wrist. Your job is to hold a quality sight picture while pulling the trigger directly to the rear. I've attached a chart that you can keep with you to help you diagnose where you might be having problems.

Thanks a lot, that's a very handy chart. I don't recall breaking my wrist down (I'll ask an instructor or my dad to keep an eye on my grip the next time I'm out shooting, though) but I definitely tightened my grip while pulling the trigger. I'll really have to remember to bring this chart with me next time.

ETA:

a lot of factors can come into play with this...it could be how much finger you got on the trigger, if your jerking etc. etc.

I keep my index finger's distal joint centered on the trigger -- I read about that in an article by Massad Ayoob and figured his reasoning was pretty sound. If it's better to use the pad of the finger, I'll start doing that.

[andrewjs18]

Thanks a lot, that's a very handy chart. I don't recall breaking my wrist down (I'll ask an instructor or my dad to keep an eye on my grip the next time I'm out shooting, though) but I definitely tightened my grip while pulling the trigger. I'll really have to remember to bring this chart with me next time.

ETA:



I keep my index finger's distal joint centered on the trigger -- I read about that in an article by Massad Ayoob and figured his reasoning was pretty sound. If it's better to use the pad of the finger, I'll start doing that.

personally..if you ask me..do whatever is BEST for you..while some argue proper shooting techniques...if it doesn't work for YOU, then what's the point?

Me, personally, I can't use the pad on my trigger finger; I push the muzzle of the gun every time. I've gotta use the distal joint to keep a smooth trigger pull...that's just me, though.

try some different methods and see what works best for you..the cheapest way to see what will work for you is by dry firing your gun. I dry fire A LOT!

[GuyMontag]

I know Mas is a proponent of either the pad of the finger OR the distal joint. The most important part is that you are able to move the trigger directly to the rear without disrupting the sight alignment. The pad of the finger allows you to use the last two joint of the finger to achieve this without using the knuckle joint. By using the distal joint, you are eliminating a pivot point.

Mas often suggests the distal joint for pistols with heavier trigger pulls like revolvers. I would suggest trying the pad of your finger. Find the sweet spot where you can pull without bumping the sights left or right. Use dry fire practice to create muscle memory in your fingers as well as to look at your overall technique without the sound or recoil.

When you reinforce the muscle memory properly, it will become natural and consistent on every shot.

[wryekid]

I've never heard of "zippering," it's usually called "vertical stringing" Vertical stringing can be caused by a number of factors. Low shots can be caused by you looking at the target instead of the front sight, you drop the muzzle to see the target. Another possiblitity is that you are "pushing" the gun toward the target in anticipation of recoil.


Zippering . . . that's new one on me.

I guess I am assuming that vertical stringing and zippering are the same. I have heard the term "the zipper" as a defense tactic. This would be used in a situation when your assailant may have, or you think they may have body armour on. Hopefully it would never have to be used.

[FentFV]

It sounds like you're good in the horizontal, but the vertical is giving you trouble. Here's a good test (since you're using a revolver) -- leave one cylinder unloaded and "randomize" so you won't know which one is empty. Then fire through normally. If you pull the trigger on the emtpy cylinder and you've dipped the barrel, then you're anticipating the recoil which causes you to shoot low. This is probably one of the most common errors for new shooters.