Mini-Review: PPK/S + Guru Pocket Holster

[Fudmottin]

The pistol: Interarms made 1996 Walther PPK/S in SS finish
The holster: Guru handmade pocket holster
The Ammo: Prvi Partizan 94gr FMJ 380 ACP

A bit of background. The PPK/S I purchased back in 1996 because I was looking for something more compact than my Colt 1911 Series 80 Compact Model in 45 ACP. At first it felt wonderful and light. Then I shot it. It bit me. Drew blood in fact. It got put away after several stove pipes and more bleeding.

Earlier this year someone on Silencer Talk asked about shooting a suppressed PPK/S. I thought it would be a nice project to make a silencer for it. I've designed one. I just have to do the Form-1 paperwork.

I decided I should also revisit the PPK/S as a carry gun. My big problem was with the bite. How to fix? Dremel. I rounded off the rear back strap, and the slide behind the serrations.

The result: Resale value killed, shooting comfort massively improved.

Like any small pistol, the PPK/S has useless sights. Don't bother with them. With a proper hold, just look over the gun at the target and you stand a good chance of hitting it. I tested that on a gallon milk jug at a distance much further than legitimate self defense distances and nailed it repeatedly. I know this isn't scientific. I have no group size for you. But in my mind, the PPK/S can shoot well.

BTW, due to the nature of the cartridge, I personally recommend FMJ rather than any kind of expanding ammo. Penetration is the name of the game here. Expanding ammo will waste energy if it actually does expand. Your return will be less penetration. Feel free to disagree.

The holster. I give it top marks. It turns the obvious gun profile into a block profile in the pocket. I recommend bigger front pockets than the jeans I had on. The holster also distributes the weight better than just a naked gun in the pocket.

Drawing from a pocket is not fast for me. The holster covers the trigger and the safety. My method of carry for a PPK/S would be a round in the tube and safety off. DA pull is quite heavy. That should do. Also you don't want to be racking the slide to chamber a round if you need to use the gun in a hurry. Riding the slide is a good way to get a jam that can only be cleared by dropping the magazine.

The holster is also easy to put the gun back into. My Kramer for the S&W 638 will allow that. Unfortunately, you have a good chance of pulling the holster out on a draw with the Kramer. This seems unlikely with the Guru.

I wouldn't consider a pocket holster the best carry method. Strong side IWB or pancakes work better at the cost of comfort and maybe even concealment. Still, if you like pocket carry, the Guru is good at that.

The PPK/S is on the upper limit of size for pocket carry, IMO. Forget the pinky extension magazines. Go with flat floors. Since 1929 when the PP series was developed, more size efficient pistols have been created. I dare say few of them will shoot as well as the Walther. Anyone telling you the PPK/S is not accurate has obviously not practiced with it. It is as accurate as any pistol in its size range.

The PPK/S also weighs in at a relatively hefty 23oz by today's standards. That's a chunk of iron in your pocket. The Guru mitigates that a fair bit. But it won't make it feel like you have an 11oz Kel-Tec P3AT in your pocket instead.

I haven't yet decided to make the PPK/S my primary carry. But it is lighter and smaller than an HK P7M8. I'm at a point where I know the odds of needing a gun are very slim. So comfort trumps all so long as the gun can do the job if the need requires.

Naturally there is no substitute for practice or situational awareness however you choose to go. However, this is a review of the Guru pocket holster for the most part, not a sermon. I give the Guru an A. It is exactly as large as it needs to be for the PPK/S. One might fit your favorite carry.

http://www.pocketholsters.com/Walthe...t_holster.html

[zachomega]

Nice review! I agree that the PPK/S is a VERY accurate gun. I don't find the sights to be totally useless, but they do leave a bit to be desired in low light situations.

I also carry with FMJ and the flat floor magazine. The pinky magazine is more comfortable but it makes the gun just a hair bigger than I'd like.

It is definitely a very heavy gun for its size. However, I trust it with my life.

One other thing to note, Smith and Wesson manufactured Walthers currently have a recall on PPK and PPK/S guns due to a possible hammer malfunction which allows a chambered round to be fired without the trigger being pulled.

I keep mine with a round in the chamber but with the safety on.

-Zach

[PA Rifleman]

Nice review! I agree that the PPK/S is a VERY accurate gun. I don't find the sights to be totally useless, but they do leave a bit to be desired in low light situations. ...

-Zach

Then I need to hire you as a range coach. I didn't do well at all a few weeks ago @ 25 yards. Interarms PPK, .380, S&B FMJ. No malfunctions whatsoever.


Also the usual receiver-to-hand "extension".

The pistol: Interarms made 1996 Walther PPK/S in SS finish...How to fix? Dremel. I rounded off the rear back strap, and the slide behind the serrations.

The result: Resale value killed, shooting comfort massively improved...

Photos?

[Fudmottin]

As I said, I find the sights nearly useless. I'm not sure how to teach someone the technique of looking over the sights. It does require initial use of the sights to get a feel for how the gun shoots. Then you just use the pattern on the top of the slide rail to aid in pointing. This is for a two hand hold isosceles stance.

Now for pictures! (warning, 1280 x 960)



Here you see the slide open. I made the mistake of holding the Dremel tool in one hand while holding the gun in the other. It would have been better to use a buffing wheel of a bench tool or to at least clamp down the gun. The slide is open to show where I ground that.

I did not touch the guide rails. I was simply attempting to put approximately a 1/2 - 1 mm radius in the back strap and in the slide behind the grip serrations. As you can see, the tool marks look rough and crude. But they are smooth and a fast improvement over the paper cutter surface that existed before.

I wish Walther used radiuses in the original design so that they would come from the factory nice and smooth.



Another view of how the Dremel tool skipped and scratched the back strap. This time the slide is closed with the safety on to show how minor the modification actually was.

Also you get a view of the gun in the holster. This view is much improved in this last picture:



I did not touch the front strap with the tool because I had no issues there. As you can see, there is not one more square inch of leather than required for the PPK/S. The shorter PPK grip would provide a bit more room. It would also be a shade harder to handle since even two fingers on the grip would have a bit of trouble.

The recoil is a bit sharp because of the low mass of the pistol. I honestly don't think I would shoot a P3AT much. The rounding of the rear edges took out the bite. I just need to clean things up a bit if I can. The scratch marks are barely a thousandth of an inch deep. However, that is beyond the ability of a Dremel polishing wheel to fix.

The Dremel did do a good job of removing surface rust that got on the gun in storage. Remember, stainless needs an oil coating too.

[zachomega]

If you want to get rid of the tool marks, try some 1500 grit wet dry sandpaper. You should be able to get it from an automotive finishing place.

-Zach

[mpi]

I've been carrying the same setup but for a KT p3at for many years and never once been "burned" i love the setup and carry it every day!

[Fudmottin]

The PPK/S is pretty much at the limit in size for a pocket pistol. Yet it is narrower than a S&W 638 which Kramer makes a pocket holster for.

The dimensions favor the PPK/S over the J frame. Also you get three more rounds (7+1 vs 5). Even though the 380 ACP is considered less powerful than the 38 SPL, a 2" snubbie isn't going to realize the potential of a 38 SPL +P even with a 125gr bullet.

I can't personally compare the PP series against the P3AT since I've never actually handled a P3AT. However, slinging out a 94 or 95 grain bullet is going to amount to the same recoil momentum in both guns. The heavier PPK/S competes against the flex of the plastic grip mold of the P3AT. The bite of the PPK/S is best handled in a more competent manner than I handled it. Once done, shooting the little daemon becomes far more pleasant. Fun in fact.

I do know first hand that a G30 is gentle to shoot. Although I would put any Colt I've fired ahead of the G30.

Apart from the rather infamous bite, the PP series is an excellent design. So long as you didn't get a post WWII French made version that doesn't have the jump in the feed ramp, you should have an utterly reliable handgun. The Interarms version made in the USA follows the original design. So if you feel JHP ammo is your thing, you can probably feed it.

I honestly do not know anything about the S&W guns. My latest (and only other) Walther is an Interarms import of the German made P99. It required a 200 round break in to become reliable. Now I am debating about getting the 15 round magazines for it because I bought it during the AWB and it came with two crippled 10 rounders. Nifty gun though. More of a collector piece for me than anything else. James Bond fan here.

Plastic frames have proven themselves. So I won't debate them here. However, my G30 still has an occasional problem with feeding if I limp wrist it badly enough. I think it takes either a weak practice round or an overly stoked +P defense round (which swells the brass in the oversized chamber) to cause a feeding problem. Considering the physical state I may be in when under fire, I do not consider such failure scenarios acceptable.

Bottom line is I like all steel guns. That's why I take an HK P7M8 over a G30 in spite of round count and caliber.

As far as grouping is concerned, if you get all the shots in the black at 25 meters in a human sized silhouette, I don't think you have a worry. Even with the 380, a thorax hit is a fair hit. Spread them about a bit and you do more damage than if you put them all through the same hole. I simply hit the milk jug each time. I didn't necessarily get a good group on it.

There are no points in real life. It is simply pass / fail. Pass you live. Fail you die. There really isn't a lot in between.

[partridge]

Hi. New to this forum but have been lurking for a while.

Im interested in this Guru pocket holster. Its the only one I could find for the PPK/S that has the flap that covers the whole gun. All the rest have no leather on the grip area.

But is pocketholsters.com still alive? Been trying their website for a couple days with no success.

Paul

[armandbeni]

Nice review. I also was surprised and dismayed at the bite of the ppks. I bought a rubber cover for grip which covers the sharp metal edges. This works well, didn't cost much (around $12.00) and didn't lower the resale value of the gun.

[mrnyman]

Fuddmottin i hate to disappoint you but the Interarms PPk/S, PPk were made by Manhurin too in Alsace-Lorraine, maybe they just used the specs that that Interarms wanted.

I have always thought the interarms PPK's were beautifully made. And yes they are very accurate if you use the Sights, .

As you know interarms were owned by a "former" (we know there is no such thing) CIA officer, this gentleman really knows guns, so i would think he insisted on the WW2 drawings.