The New York Problem

[Yellowfin]

I'm trying to do some legal research on why NY is so darn problematic on getting their draconian and idiotic gun laws struck. It doesn't help, of course, that we have only had Heller for a year or so and thus far the only court challenge based on it is the half baked Maloney case. But apparently the problem lies further back, much further, yes? Someone commenting on my thoughts on lawsuit routes told me it was a problem of decades of precedent, that my analysis of things in light of what I know was severely lacking a clue. OK, so I need an education on the matter: what's the lineage of court decisions in the state and 2nd Circuit which keep NY so incurably screwed up?

[Morel42]

I'm trying to do some legal research on why NY is so darn problematic on getting their draconian and idiotic gun laws struck. It doesn't help, of course, that we have only had Heller for a year or so and thus far the only court challenge based on it is the half baked Maloney case. But apparently the problem lies further back, much further, yes? Someone commenting on my thoughts on lawsuit routes told me it was a problem of decades of precedent, that my analysis of things in light of what I know was severely lacking a clue. OK, so I need an education on the matter: what's the lineage of court decisions in the state and 2nd Circuit which keep NY so incurably screwed up?

Without looking it up for details or dates.. But I remember something about how when New York created it's draconian gun laws, the NRA (and others) were going to file a court case..

However some HACK of a lawyer filed first in order to get the glory and the publicity. Unfortunately this lawyer was so disgustingly bad he botched the entire lawsuit. Thus when he lost (and lost big) he basically made a huge precedent for the anti's to use in every court case following it. And in Law, precedent is a very, very big part of how the case will be judged.

[archangel689]

The issue is really with, where the population resides and the county lines.

In PA the population centers are in Erie, Allegheny county, Philadelphia County and counties surrounding Philadelphia. Ironically these are also the only places which turn blue in the presidential election. The rest of the state(and a majority of it) is red, so a lot of the state senators and representatives are also red. But when it comes to the popular vote, the dems have control, president, governor, federal representatives and senators.

Another check and balance.

NY on the other hand has a lot more dems in their population and a lot more democratic counties, there is no hope for them. They are an unbalanced state with way too many people and thats why this shit gets passed in the first place. People in close quarters naturally leads to thinking that "I don't want anyone having a gun around me that could shoot me" without a lot of brain activity, these people adopt the democrat view of gun control. In farm country people don't adopt this view simply because people are further spaced and thus lower crime and the stupid majority feels more secure. This is why, in cities, you only have a few people like me who think everyone should own at least a 12 gauge and a glock. The logic simply requires the use of more brain cells, something which a majority of people simply do not use. They grasp for an ideal world where guns have been uninvented, a world that simply cannot exist. Criminals can manufacture guns if they can't steal them, just like they do drugs.

This stupidity breeds people (sociopaths in my opinion; having lived with one) who take advantage for selfish reasons or power addict reasons. Such as Feinstein and Pelosi who BOTH own guns yet push rubbish.

I'm trying to do some legal research on why NY is so darn problematic on getting their draconian and idiotic gun laws struck. It doesn't help, of course, that we have only had Heller for a year or so and thus far the only court challenge based on it is the half baked Maloney case. But apparently the problem lies further back, much further, yes? Someone commenting on my thoughts on lawsuit routes told me it was a problem of decades of precedent, that my analysis of things in light of what I know was severely lacking a clue. OK, so I need an education on the matter: what's the lineage of court decisions in the state and 2nd Circuit which keep NY so incurably screwed up?

[Yellowfin]

Good info, but that explains the population and legislative makeup, not what I'm looking for. I'm asking about the case law structure in both the New York state courts and the US 2nd Circuit which upholds these laws rather than voiding them. What cases, dating back I guess to where it started with the Sullivan Law in 1911 (or before?) have been used as the precedent to avoid striking down these absolutely horrid laws?

Nationally, I know that in 1833 Barron v. Baltimore said that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to the states, hence the need for the 14th Amendment, and then when we got it there were still the Slaughterhouse cases then US v. Cruikshank and Presser v. Illinois which stated that the 2nd Amendment wasn't an individual right AND didn't apply to the states. So there was until the Heller decision in 2008 a span of over 100 years where states such as NY and CA could say "What Second Amendment? We can do what we want, and we don't like you having guns and you have no standing to change that." California used this in lots of cases, the most well known of which being Hickman v. Block, Fresno Rifle v. Van de Kaamp, and Silveira v. Lockyer, all of which were terrible rulings but hinged on the federal stuff...AND prior cases that said the same. After a while they could simply quote their own rulings, no matter how old or how bad, and all attempts to right the wrongs are squelched by stare decisis. This problem has been removed in the 9th Circuit thanks to Nor**** v. King. Thus far the 2nd circuit doesn't have an incorporating decision. I'm inquiring as to determine what the mechanics of getting one will be, what we need to do with it, and what's standing in the way.

It has been an open discussion in CA, and thanks to cooperative effort with lawyers, local activists, and several contributing organizations they've been able to get stuff going that simply doesn't get done with the same 5 people who are juggling everything else having to play 99.99% defense 60 hours a week.

I'm looking for what cases the pro 2A folks are up against in NY which are to be contended with when our side brings lawsuits against the anti gun legal-political machine. I'm fully aware that the population of NYC isn't doing us any favors and can't be expected to give us 50.1% pro gun voting enough to purge the place of its politicians. Instead we have to use the courts which don't require any of that. I'm inquiring about what mechanism we have to go about the plan that's working elsewhere. Thus far I've gotten nothing because everyone in NY (or elsewhere) I've reached thus far is either doesn't know, is cloistered and protecting their turf ("You don't know what you're talking about, leave this to us!"), despondant, or doesn't understand the question.