Anyone have good experience with SWFA Super Sniper optics?

[ReconLdr]

I learned the difference between a "El Cheapo" scope and a quality scope this weekend.

I have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical that I finally got to shoot at long range this weekend. I currently have an A1 Optics 6-24x50 scope mounted and was able to hit 12 and 15 inch steel plates out to 700 yds. I started with my 100yd zero and worked my way out to the max range of 700 yds. I was getting consistant 1st round hits to 500 yds and had to tweek the turrets a bit for the 600 and 700 yd targets. But got hits on the second attempt at both targets.

The problem:
When I tried to "dope" for range working back to the 100 yd target the scope settings were not even close. I was very confused as to why I was able to get good hits on the way out and not able to get hits on the way in. I had to make multiple changes to the turrets to get on the targets at each range.

I then went back and re-zeroed for 100 yds then applied the 700yd elevation and wind and got a 1st round hit. Re-set the turrets for 100yds and my group was 4.5 inches off!!! I repeated this process 2 more times with similar results groups were 3" and 3.25" respectively. I checked to make sure my mounting hardware was tight so the scope is not moving at all.

Some of my friends who are more experienced at long range shooting explained to me "thats the difference between cheap and quality scopes." They also think that if a scope cost less than $1k its a waste of time and money. While I agree you get what you pay for... I don't have $1k to drop on a scope right now and want to shoot at various ranges.

I told you all this to ask, if anyone has used or is currently using a Super Sniper scope from SWFA? I have heard good things about them but then A1 Optics has some pretty good reviews on their website too.

Bottom line I need a new scope and I am considering the SS 16x44, thoughts?

ETA: Most of my friends are "gun snobs" and earn considerably more $ than I do so they can afford the "best".

[arrrrgh15]

I recently warned of this very issue in the "Optics" section of this forum. You should post over there too so that others may learn from your first hand experience.

I have no personal experience with the SS scopes, so I can't help you there. My recomendation would be to research thoroughly and make sure that the people giving reviews are actually using the scope to shoot targets past 100-yards and actually use the adjustments as they were intended to be used. Repeated elevation and windage adjustments to extended ranges and back. They will know if the adjustments are repeatable and return to zero. If not, keep shopping.

As tough as it is to hear, sometimes good quality optics are worth saving for. Buy once, cry once. Buy cheap, buy again.

Good Luck and keep it up!

ETA: PS. Although the initial purchase might be a little rough. A good quality scope should last a lifetime, so think of it as an investment.

[ReconLdr]

I recently warned of this very issue in the "Optics" section of this forum. You should post over there too so that others may learn from your first hand experience.

I have no personal experience with the SS scopes, so I can't help you there. My recomendation would be to research thoroughly and make sure that the people giving reviews are actually using the scope to shoot targets past 100-yards and actually use the adjustments as they were intended to be used. Repeated elevation and windage adjustments to extended ranges and back. They will know if the adjustments are repeatable and return to zero. If not, keep shopping.

As tough as it is to hear, sometimes good quality optics are worth saving for. Buy once, cry once. Buy cheap, buy again.

Good Luck and keep it up!

Can one of the mods move this to the optics section? I agree I should have put it there.

[Tomcat088]

ReconLdr, I don't own a Super Sniper scope, but I know quite a few people that do. I haven't looked through one beside another scope, and I haven't shot and dialed one, but I do have honest opinions from other people that are honest and ACTUAL LR shooters.

The Super Sniper scopes are a pretty good value for the money. Their optical quality isn't bad, but it also isn't the best. I haven't looked through one, but from what I have heard, they have some abberations on the outer edges of the glass, so long duration shooting sessions it could cause some eye strain. What they are known for is that they almost ALWAYS dial consistently out and back, and that they're durable. There are lots of people that complain about the feel and sound of the clicks on the scopes. Sometimes the clicks are a bit mushy (not quite crisp), or they're a bit quiet; although they're accurate clicks up and down, they're just not quite as crisp as other manufacturers. There is a fix for this, although I don't know what the "pucker factor" is on it. They are apparently taking off the turrets and replacing the O ring with a different size. After it's replaced, supposedly the clicks feel better, although I don't know if it keeps it's "water resistent" integrity. This is coming from other tactical shooters that aren't posers, but as I said before, I don't have any personal experience with dialing and shooting them. One thing you should also keep in mind is that the SS is a fixed power scope, which may or may not be exactly what you're looking for.

In similar price range brackets, you're going to hear of a few other scopes, which also have their own downfalls, but you'll hear about Falcon Optics, Mueller Optics, Millett TRS & LRS, Wonder Tactical Optics (WoTac), and others. All of them have their pluses and minuses, and I'll be happy to discuss what I have "heard" from reliable sources with those as well. Of these mentioned, I just have experience with the Millett LRS. Hope that helps with a little input. Of all of the ones mentioned, most of them so far appear to dial how they're supposed to, but as always, there are sometimes issues or other quality control issues that come up.

[ReconLdr]

SNIP

In similar price range brackets, you're going to hear of a few other scopes, which also have their own downfalls, but you'll hear about Falcon Optics, Mueller Optics, Millett TRS & LRS, Wonder Tactical Optics (WoTac), and others. All of them have their pluses and minuses, and I'll be happy to discuss what I have "heard" from reliable sources with those as well. Of these mentioned, I just have experience with the Millett LRS. Hope that helps with a little input. Of all of the ones mentioned, most of them so far appear to dial how they're supposed to, but as always, there are sometimes issues or other quality control issues that come up.

Which other scopes do you recommend? I have been looking at a Ziess Conquest 4.5-14x44 for just under $800. I like the scope but pretty sure I will have a hard time coming up with the $800 right now. The way the economy is I am afraid to start using the credit cards(I managed to pay them all off right after christmas) and the Army doesn't pay me overtime...

What do you think of the Millet LRS? I have heard good things about these as well. I will look into the others you mentioned. Thanks for the help.

[Tomcat088]

Which other scopes do you recommend? I have been looking at a Ziess Conquest 4.5-14x44 for just under $800. I like the scope but pretty sure I will have a hard time coming up with the $800 right now. The way the economy is I am afraid to start using the credit cards(I managed to pay them all off right after christmas) and the Army doesn't pay me overtime...

What do you think of the Millet LRS? I have heard good things about these as well. I will look into the others you mentioned. Thanks for the help.

To be honest, most of the tactical shooters don't like Zeiss. Their tactical line is "Hensholdt", they're supposed to be a bit more rugged. I've seen this topic come up on snipershide about Zeiss, and although they're very clear glass, most people think of them as hunting rifle scopes. I've seen quite a few reports of people having problems with Zeiss scopes dialing, and didn't have the problem with Hensholdt. I'm not sure if it's something they do to encourage tactical shooters to buy Hensholdt (which cost more), or if it's just something that has kind of been a problem with the Zeiss optics. Either way, they're very nice scopes, just alot of tactical shooters prefer not to use them. If you can't afford $800, you can't afford $800, that's just how it is. I can't afford an $800 scope right now, and you do NOT need to spend that much to get a reliable scope. I don't like credit card debt, and if you're out of it and don't want to be in credit card debt, I wouldn't be quick to get back into it.

In the "cheaper price range" you will hear most about the Super Sniper scopes and the Falcon Menace. I've seen lots of shooters comment on them. Typically the deciding factor between these 2 is whether or not someone wants a variable power scope, or a fixed power scope. They both appear to have similar quality and are reliable. At one point, the Falcon Menace scopes had a 2 piece construction, there was a seem that you couldn't see at the front bell. Apparently there were a few (only heard of 2 or 3), that broke at the bell, but Falcon was happy to replace them no questions asked. Wonder optics is the new comer in the lower price bracket. Some people who like MOA reticles, are really liking the fact that they offer an MOA reticle, and not a milling reticle. Some of these scopes also have milliradian adjustments, for the milliradian reticles that they have (mil-dots, TMR, etc). So far the reviews that I have read about WoTac is that the scopes seem to be reliable and good quality. They're a small company that so far has great customer service and has stood by their product. They're new though, so with all companies it's hard to tell if they'll have growing pains or how big those might be.

If you do a bit of a search you can see a page about my Millett LRS, and on my tactical build page, there's some through the scope photos. They don't show NEAR the quality of the glass, but it'll sort of give you an idea. I've been pretty impressed with the glass, it's very clear, and VERY VERY bright. With a 56mm objective, it's kind of what you expect. The scope is HUGE, it's the largest scope that I've ever seen, and with size comes some weight. It's very durable, it's not lightly built, but you'll hear all the time how big it is. I've only dialed it to 500 yards so far, but it has tracked reliably and returned to zero every time. Later this week I should be taking it to 800 yards, so I'll be able to tell you a bit more then. My scope is from the first production run, I bought it pre-production, unseen, just based on seeing their TRS, and hoping that for twice the money I'd get a dang good scope. It has metal internals (steel from what I've heard), unlike cheaper scopes that have plastic and aluminum internals, which means hopefully it'll hold up. Mine is mounted on a .300 WSM, and I have 102 rounds down the tube, and it hasn't had any hiccups. Bushnell has since bought out Millett, and they stopped production while they were moving the facilities, so there's not that many of these scopes out there yet. I've heard Bushnell is putting out just as good of glass, and they have added the mil-mil feature, and the illuminated reticle feature. They also have a Generation II Mil-dot reticle, which some people will prefer over some of the other reticles that the other scopes have. Of all the scopes that I've mentioned so far, these are a bit more pricey, I bought mine for cheaper because it was a pre-production order. When Bushnell started putting them out I was seeing them for $440, but now I believe they're in the $460-480 (depending on where you get it). This might be out of the price range that you're wanting to go, but it's just something that I thought I'd mention. Let me know if you have any questions, and I'll be happy to answer them as best I can.

[wheeling365]

I personally have run the SS in 20x on an AR-50. It was part of a package with the gun when I got it. Knowing that its made by tasco and that it's claim to fame is that the Navy Seals supposedly use it is not all that impressive. As was mentioned the clicks are, well not there. I also didn't care for the immage thru it. It always seemed dark even on nice sunny days. I ended up taking it off and getting a leupold MK4 LRT at the bargan cave in cabellas for under $850 with the full lifetime warranty. It has the TMR reticle and is alot clearer even on overcast days.

I can relate to not wanting to go into the poor house to get a good optic. I fought with the idea of buying the leupold for months prior to getting it. You could always sell your current optic to offset the cost. Or make some friendly wagers with your buddies about shooting then out shoot them with what you are currently using.

SWFA use to have specials this time of year with "used" optics that were just displays at shows over the last year. I know a few friends got lucky and bought good stuff for a steal. Even if you would have to get it warrantied thru the original manufacturer your getting a pretty good deal sometimes.

[ReconLdr]

Thank you for all the assistance... I am currently exploring all of my options. I am doing a lot of research right now, I will be certain to let you know how I make out.

[wslowik]

I'm in the same exact situation. Just got a 700 sps tactical and need a scope. I've thought about going with a SS scope but after thinking about it I think I'm going to stick to the "buy once, cry once" adage. Probably going with a Leupold Mark4 LR/T 3.5-10x Illuminated TMR reticle.

Also, if you have a C&R license, you can get a dealer discount at MidwayUSA which gets you almost $300 off this scope.

[bleaman225]

I had the SS 10x42m with the side focus. As said before, the image wasnt the clearest but what made me get rid of it was the fact that the side focus (parallax) just stopped working altogether. SWFA actually sent me a entirely new SS before I ever even sent my bad one back. SWFA's customer service was second to none, the scope left me sort of disappointed. I sold the new one and bought a Nightforce.