McKees Rocks Open Carry

[Skuggi]

Ok, i'm gonna explain this, and then thats the end, theres other forums for open vs concealed.

In my mind how I see it is this. Everything is a Tool.

I both open carry and conceal.

When I open carry besides pride, there are benefits that I see.

-The would be BG will look for an easier target
-In the event I need to draw, it will be quicker, maybe only a second, but thats an extra second and time is expensive

When I conceal

-There is a surprise element
-Less chance for negative social reaction

My preference, except at work is to open carry, the reason being is, I have been held at gunpoint and attempted to be robbed. If I had been of age to pack, and had it concealed, there was no way I was drawing without the bg noticing. If I was open carrying, I may have had a chance as there was a car i could duck behind while pulling. If I was open carrying they may have left me alone, seeing as it took him a while to draw. Either way, the idiot put the gun to my head, I was able to disarm him, and turn the weapon into the police, who they never even caught the guy that I know of. Oh well 3 years in the past.

What I do not understand is the big thing of everyone trying to push their preference on others, everyone needs to do what is comfortable with themselves. That is the biggest thing. But I will be updating this as I roam around open carrying in the McKees Rocks, Kennedy, Robinson area where I frequent. That is what this thread is about, so take any open carry vs concealed somewhere that people like to complain about it.

[Turkeyhoagie]

I asked an officer about open carry today, he said it was legal, but he didn't like it and said that they "discourage" those who "try to".

See: Official Oppression.
See: Abuse of Office.

It's a hassle to be a test case, but it's worth the trouble if you have loans- you can pay 'em off with the state's money! I myself am considering doing it after college

I am not criticizing the OP, but I personally think that open carry is not a good idea 95% of the time.

You *are* criticizing the OP. That's ok, it's why he posted. The agreements don't help him as much as the disagreements - how much do you learn from people that say "+1" or "yea, I'm with you!"?

I understand the argument about rights and I agree with it, but I am referring to the less idealistic reality of keeping a low profile and leading a "stealth existance" as John Farnam referrs to it.

Maybe that's our problem - people look to the govt because the govt is the only entity they see saying "yeah, we can fight this." If you go out OCing, you're making a visible statement - good guys can take action too! Believe it or not, there are people whose minds this thought has not yet crossed.

Having weapons legally concealed upon your person is a tremendous advantage to you in a potential confrontation; open carrying, while possibly a deterrant, also negates your primary advantage of a surprise response.

Dunno. Allow me to deviate from my natural tendency and play the devil's advocate- A guy that will rob a seemingly unarmed man may simply be in it for the money. A guy that is willing to rob a man with a gun on his hip means business, and only a certain grave manner of business at that. If he knows off the bat that you're packing, he knows outright what he's getting into. If he gives up, good for you, if he doesn't, bad for you.. but the ensuing legal issues might go your way more.

I have open carried occsionally and I will in the future, but I think that it is best done in groups (as cops do and as individuals in Tony's classes will do at dinner time) instead of as a single individual.

OK, this I can back. It's easier in a group. But perhaps less powerful a statement.


Look, I sincerely hope that I will never have to draw my gun. If I do, it will have served its purpose. But I don't go into danger as part of my day job - if I don't have to, then I don't do so. If I OC every day for 50 years and draw once, have I made a greater impact in my one draw, for myself, or in my 50 years of OC, making people THINK about the issues that gun represents to them?

[Pa. Patriot]

... I personally think that open carry is not a good idea 95% of the time. ................ open carrying, while possibly a deterrant, also negates your primary advantage of a surprise response.

I have to disagree, in part, to the tactical advantage notion. If the attack is deterred before it begins there is no advantage to a "surprise response" as no attack= NO response = safer you.

A lot of people seem to think that open carry is somehow less 'tactical' or less 'advantageous'. At least you have thought it out a bit. so don't take my disagreement with any disrespect as none is intended. Just want to put another perspective out there on that topic as well as some other common 'cons' to OC that I see mentioned frequently.

This doesn't apply to you but usually the anti OC reply is a quick and not thought out "why would anyone OC?".. blah blah. "It's just stupid".. blah blah, "you will be targeted first"... blah blah.

As to the "it's stupid" comments, I can't reply because those folks rarely give support for why they think it's "stupid". So I ignore them.
Some, upon questioning, will often opine that they think only someone with an ego, something to prove, or looking for trouble would carry open. Of course this is simply immature and "stupid". Although the "something to prove" may be more correct than they think. Yes, carrying open helps educate the masses that it is legal and normal. So I concede on that point in the end I guess

As to 'tactical advantage'. I think this is plausible, however not likely.
Explanation: Most criminals that you would encounter and need to be prepared for fit the following set of qualities:
1) Amature/punk (IE: not "trained")
2) looking to make the easiest score possible. (IE: soft target)
3) limited to onesies or groups of one to two other punks

I hear people mention the "they will target you first" but have never seen anything to back it up. News, hearsay, etc.
I think that due to the profile outlined above the reality is that the overwhelming majority of people actually planning a criminal action or attack will simply and without hesitation go look for a softer target or environment in which to commit their intended act. Again, IMHO the overwhelming majority.

Now, I did say I thought the idea plausible, but not likely. The above outlines the not likely. A more organized type of criminal or more likely a group of criminals, planning something big and possessing the anticipation of meeting with resistance anyway I could see not being deterred, *possibly* but not for sure, by your presence there OC'ing. Think of a finely planned bank robbery where the bank has armed guards. Takes balls, planning and training but it happens. Rarely, but it does.
BUT Exactly how likely are you be be the vicinity of a Heat (the movie) type of operation? Me thinks next to never. The likelihood of being in an average, run of the mill self-defense encounter depends on a lot of factors but is generally pretty low. Not "slim" but not imminent either. In contrast, the type of scenario where the bad guy(s) would be bold enough to target you first, as they say, is simply *nearly* non-existent IMHO.

The only other 'con' to OC that I see mentioned that is even worth mentioning (IMO) is the snatch and grab.
I think this is a real concern. However I think the chances of it happening are about as slim as the Heat plot playing out around you. Most punks don't have the balls and are deathly afraid of *other* people with guns.
But, I have thought about this and realized that after all these years of CC I have to admit to mostly not being aware of my CCW, most of the time. In other words I am not thinking about it or concerned with it because it is out of sight, out of mind.
While OC'ing I have been, so far, always aware of my OCW and have adjusted my behavior to enhance it's security. For example. Last night I was paying for my pizza (wife and kids were out so I got to eat junk for a change).
While at the register I gave myself just a little more room to the guy standing next to me and kept my arm in a more shielding position to my strong side. Not because the guy looked like trouble, but I have to admit, retention is something I have to think about, and I do. Something that I didn't have to think about while CC'ing.
When in close proximity to other people I will definitely continue to optimize retention through avoidance, posture, etc. Despite my beliefe that the snatch and grab is nearly non-existent threat, I feel it would be irresponsible to not do as such.


In the end I think the deterrent as well as the other advantages of OC handily outweigh the disadvantages in not all, but in the majority of situations.
But we all have to make our own conclusions and judgments as to when to OC, when to CC and when to be just another sheep

ETA: original quote

[Statkowski]

I was able to disarm him, and turn the weapon into the police

Did you file a claim for the firearm as "found property"? Who knows, you could have become the proud owner of the handgun if nobody claimed it.

[Pa. Patriot]

.... so take any open carry vs concealed somewhere that people like to complain about it.

Sorry I was obviously typing my response at the same time you were posting this.

[Skuggi]

Did you file a claim for the firearm as "found property"? Who knows, you could have become the proud owner of the handgun if nobody claimed it.

Um... no lol, I think it'll be evidence rather than claimed property lol. Thought never crossed my mind actually.

[Turkeyhoagie]

take any open carry vs concealed somewhere that people like to complain about it.

Me too, with the me typing while you're typing I let my post stand, but will not discuss the advantage or lack of anymore here. Bottom line, good on you for carrying, however you choose to carry, and good on everybody else for not trying to have you 302'd

I hear people mention the "they will target you first" but have never seen anything to back it up. News, heresy, etc.

Heresy? some people take this gun thing WAY too seriously!

I was gonna correct you, but on second thought you may be right. Especially once you get out into the rural areas of PA..

Pa. Patriot: I like to OC
TheKatar: OC? no! they'll target you first!
Pa.Patriot: BLASPHEMER!
(and there is gathering of stones and dragging of TheKatar out to the city gates)

[Thekatar]

I guess I don't understand the drama going on here. If the OP didn't want replies to this thread then I guess he should have requested an immediate mod lock so that it could just have been a public statement.

I also did not say, "they'll target you first!" One would need to actually read my post, though, to see that.

My apologies if I hurt feelings with my very mild and non-confrontational post.

I personally don't carry out of idealism, I carry to defend my life.

[Thekatar]

BTW, I think the poster misspelled "heresay" as heresy, which may have led to some confusion.

[Pa. Patriot]

I guess I don't understand the drama going on here. If the OP didn't want replies to this thread then I guess he should have requested an immediate mod lock so that it could just have been a public statement.

I also did not say, "they'll target you first!" One would need to actually read my post, though, to see that.

My apologies if I hurt feelings with my very mild and non-confrontational post.

I personally don't carry out of idealism, I carry to defend my life.

I think your referring to Turkeyhogie. But in case you meant me I just want to clarify I never accused you of saying "they'll target you first!"
I expressed my disagreement with what you DID post about tactical advantage. After which I addresses some other 'cons' to OC that I hear frequently. Before I did I make the point that I was NOT referring to your post any more a tthat point. Also, no worries about hurt feelings or any of that stuff here. Just friendly conversation.

ETA: Yes your correct, I did typo hearsay. (so did you - lol: "heresay")