OC just today that turned bad.

[GetITCdot]

So a couple of hours after the positive OC experience with Sam and Harry I decided to head over to Monroeville mall to pick up some swim suites with Jess. We headed straight in and went down to the food court to get a bite to eat. Immediately I was waived over to the side by 2 mall cops. The convo went like this.

Cop 1:
"Why do you have that gun"
Me:
"For Protection"
Cop 1:
"That's incredibly illegal do you have a permit?"
Me:
"I have a LTCF"
Cop 1:
"May I see it and also your ID"
Me:
"No you may not, if you would like me to leave that won't be a problem"
Cop 1:
"No we already have a problem"
Cop 2 calls supervisor.
While waiting for the supervisor to come down:
Cop 1:
"I'm going to ask you again for your permit"
Me:
"Again I have a LTCF and no you may not see it however if you would like me to leave that wont be a problem"

supervisor shows up:
Cop 1:
"This man has a gun and refuses to show me his permit"
Supervisor"
"May i see your permit please"
Me:
"I have a LTCF and no you may not see it however if you would like me to leave that wont be a problem" (starting to sound like a broken record)
Supervisor:
"It is mall policy to allow concealed carry with a permit but open carry is illegal if you have a LTCF and also illegal on private property"
Me:
"It may be against your policy which i was un-aware of and will gladly leave if that is what you wish but it is NOT illegal"
Supervisor:
"Let me see your permit or I will call the monroville police"
Me:
"I will not show you my permit but i will leave if you like."

They take me outside to wait for the cop. I light up a cigarette and wait far away from the no smoking sign.

LEO pulls up and supervisor explains what happend

LEO:
"May i see your LTCF"

now please do not neg rep me at this point but i had enough i had my girlfriend with me and did not feel like taking this shit any longer.

Me:
"Yes i do however it is not illegal to Open carry and i have no problem leaving if there policy is no OC"

LEO:
"May i see it please"

I hand him my LTCF.

LEO to Supervisor:
"Did you ask him to leave?"

Supervisor
"No we told him it was illegal and he refused to show us his permit he is allowed in he just need to keep it in the car or cover it up."

Me:
"That's fine i will leave"



A letter will be sent.

LEO hands me my LTCF and starts talking to the supervisor while i leave.





EDIT:

there will not be a letter sent. After searching i found on their prohibited policy "Carrying or displaying weapons of any kind except those carried by certified law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties."

I guess i walked into a hornets nest on that one without knowing the policy. I guess neg rep is in order.

[fingers80002]

So a couple of hours after the positive OC experience with Sam and Harry I decided to head over to Monroeville mall to pick up some swim suites with Jess. We headed straight in and went down to the food court to get a bite to eat. Immediately I was waived over to the side by 2 mall cops. The convo went like this.

Cop 1:
"Why do you have that gun"
Me:
"For Protection"
Cop 1:
"That's incredibly illegal do you have a permit?"
Me:
"I have a LTCF"
Cop 1:
"May I see it and also your ID"
Me:
"No you may not, if you would like me to leave that won't be a problem"
Cop 1:
"No we already have a problem"
Cop 2 calls supervisor.
While waiting for the supervisor to come down:
Cop 1:
"I'm going to ask you again for your permit"
Me:
"Again I have a LTCF and no you may not see it however if you would like me to leave that wont be a problem"

supervisor shows up:
Cop 1:
"This man has a gun and refuses to show me his permit"
Supervisor"
"May i see your permit please"
Me:
"I have a LTCF and no you may not see it however if you would like me to leave that wont be a problem" (starting to sound like a broken record)
Supervisor:
"It is mall policy to allow concealed carry with a permit but open carry is illegal if you have a LTCF and also illegal on private property"
Me:
"It may be against your policy which i was un-aware of and will gladly leave if that is what you wish but it is NOT illegal"
Supervisor:
"Let me see your permit or I will call the monroville police"
Me:
"I will not show you my permit but i will leave if you like."

They take me outside to wait for the cop. I light up a cigarette and wait far away from the no smoking sign.

LEO pulls up and supervisor explains what happend

LEO:
"May i see your LTCF"

now please do not neg rep me at this point but i had enough i had my girlfriend with me and did not feel like taking this shit any longer.

Me:
"Yes i do however it is not illegal to Open carry and i have no problem leaving if there policy is no OC"

LEO:
"May i see it please"

I hand him my LTCF.

LEO to Supervisor:
"Did you ask him to leave?"

Supervisor
"No we told him it was illegal and he refused to show us his permit he is allowed in he just need to keep it in the car or cover it up."

Me:
"That's fine i will leave"



A letter will be sent.

LEO hands me my LTCF and starts talking to the supervisor while i leave.

The only thing see, I would have had the LEO call his Supervisor, not show the LTCF.

Otherwise you done good!!!!

ETA: Send a letter to the LEO dept. that responded. He should have been through his annual update by now.

[General Geoff]

This is why leaving your LTCF in your car is a very good idea for a seasoned open carrier. Can't show what you don't have.


Also, the supervisor and the mall security folks didn't seem to grasp, even by the end of the confrontation, that open carry is legal. They seem to have just continued assuming that it's illegal. Leaving without you or the real police officer clarifying that it was indeed not against the law to carry openly, is probably your biggest mistake.

[JoeWilliams]

Were these mall cops (security guards) or actual cops? If they were mall cops, they had no legal authority to detain you in the circumstances desribed. I would suggest a letter is, in fact, in order.

In fact, if they were real cops, they had no legal reason detain you. Ask you to leave, sure, but detain you? No way. Again a letter is in order explaining to the mall operators that by illegally arresting you, they have violated the law and your civil rights, and you would be interested in hearing their ideas on how they intend to make you whole.

[fingers80002]

This is why leaving your LTCF in your car is a very good idea for a seasoned open carrier. Can't show what you don't have.

The LEO "should " have known this.

[GetITCdot]

Were these mall cops (security guards) or actual cops? If they were mall cops, they had no legal authority to detain you in the circumstances desribed. I would suggest a letter is, in fact, in order.

In fact, if they were real cops, they had no legal reason detain you. Ask you to leave, sure, but detain you? No way. Again a letter is in order explaining to the mall operators that by illegally arresting you, they have violated the law and your civil rights, and you would be interested in hearing their ideas on how they intend to make you whole.

they were mall cops

[JoeWilliams]

they were mall cops

Fine. They had no legal reason or authority to detain you. Were you under the impression that you HAD to go with them, or did you NOT feel free to leave at any time? If so, a letter at the very least in order. Illegal arrest is an issue that goes well beyond legal behavior with a firearm, or any other legal behavior.

[normanvin]

Were these mall cops (security guards) or actual cops? If they were mall cops, they had no legal authority to detain you in the circumstances desribed. I would suggest a letter is, in fact, in order.

In fact, if they were real cops, they had no legal reason detain you. Ask you to leave, sure, but detain you? No way. Again a letter is in order explaining to the mall operators that by illegally arresting you, they have violated the law and your civil rights, and you would be interested in hearing their ideas on how they intend to make you whole.

they were mall cops

A letter might be in order to alert them that they have no cause to detain another person such as yourself. This may have been what the PD was telling them as you were leaving.

[General Geoff]

The LEO "should " have known this.

We all know what LEOs "should" know. But that doesn't mean they do. When presented with an unlawful demand by a law enforcement officer, it's much easier to deny their request due to impossibility vs a claim that their demand is unlawful (which they will obviously deny).

[fingers80002]

It really sucks your so far away.
Hell, I oc'd at Belco C.U. today with no issues.