Questioned by LEO while OC'ing in West Chester

[GL23]

It happened this morning around 10:30 am at the WAWA on High Street in West Chester. I am leaving my office in 5 min. I will update later today when I am back in front of a computer. Encounter went pretty well. LEO was courteous, but was not aware OC was legal and hasn't had his annual training yet this year.

[GL23]

It happened this morning around 10:30 am at the WaWa on High Street in West Chester. I am in this store and the one on Market Street almost daily. I have been OC'ing about a year, approximately 50% of the time I carry. No one has ever said anything to me in either store about OC. Apparently the manager asked a West Chester University PO who was in the store, "Why does that guy have a gun?"

I had just left the coffee island and was paying at the register when he approached me. He walked around to my strong side which was facing the door and the conversation went like this;

LEO: Do you have a permit for that thing?

ME: Yes, my permit is in my car, but I don't need it to carry in the open.

LEO: I don't think so, I think you have to cover it up.

ME: Can I finish paying? Are you detaining me?

LEO: Sure. I'm not detaining you, but I'm saying you have to cover it. You can't brandish your gun like that.

ME: Actually PA is an open carry state. Have you had your annual MPOETC training for 2009 yet?

LEO: Not yet, but I think you have to conceal it. The people in here are concerned and someone said something to me about it.

ME: Was it someone from the store? I come in here daily and they have never said anything. I know most of the people that work here.

LEO: It was the manager.

At this point we had strolled a few feet from the register and were standing by the door. Reading our conversation above, it is not possible to understanding the tone of our conversation. The LEO was calm and polite the entire time, and I was courteous and cooperative as well.

I quickly realized the LEO was coming from a point of not knowing PA is an open carry state. He wasn't telling me to cover because he didn't like it or agree with it, he just thought it wasn't legal. He was very receptive to the information I provided. He wrote down the name of this site and PA Open Carry as well. I told him the MPOETC training information was available at both sites. I also let him know that I appreciated the fact that he didn't come at me like LEO's have done to others; like a hard ass, enforcing opinion and in a hostile manner.

As our conversation wound down in the store, he confirmed my earlier statement that my permit was in my car. He asked to see it so he could document it. Since he was courteous and open minded in our discussion about open carry, I told him I would let him see it. We walked out to my car and I gave him my New Hampshire non-resident permit and my DL since the permit has no picture on it. He looked at both and gave them back.

We continued our conversation in the parking lot for a few more minutes. We talked about my West Conshohocken incident from last week, and about PAFOA as well. I told him I usually have a flier containing good information about PA gun rights but didn't have any with me today. He thanked me and we parted ways.

After getting a few miles up the road and folding down my sun visor, 6 gun rights flier fell into my lap. It was too late to turn around, but I was back in West Chester around 2:30 pm and headed to the West Chester University Department of Public Safety. I figured since it was before 3 pm, he might still be on shift.

I entered the building and stopped at the receptionist/dispatchers desk. I asked if Officer _____ was still on shift. She replied that he was and asked my name. When I told her my name, as she was picking up the phone to call him up front, she repeated my name and nodded her head while smiling and said, "Oh yeah." I asked her if the name sounded familiar and she nodded and smiled. I said, "You must have heard my name over the radio earlier today, huh?" She replied, "Yes I did."

The officer came to the lobby and we shook hands and I gave him a flier. He thanked me and told me he just visited the PAFOA and PA Open Carry sites. I asked if he found the training documents and he stated he hadn't located them yet but found both sites interesting. I thanked him again for being courteous during our encounter and he said the same.

I know some will not agree with me showing him my permit or DL. I come away from this encounter feeling like I made progress for the OC movement and in helping LEO's and the public realize good people carry firearms and OC is legal here in PA.

Had the officer not handled the encounter in the manner he did, I probably would not have been as cooperative. I forgot to previously mention the officer is a young guy, 28 years old. I didn't ask how long he has been a LEO. Since he is a West Chester University LEO, he probably never runs into people CC'ing, let alone OC'ing, unless he shows up at an off campus WaWa for some coffee.

Lastly, I'm not sure what to do about the whole WaWa manager thing. I don't know who the manager is. Not sure if I should call or send a letter to corporate asking about firearm policies for their stores. Neither the officer or manager specifically told me I couldn't OC in there. In the last year of OC'ing in both West Chester WaWa's, no employee have ever said anything.

Feedback would be appreciated for the encounter as well as what to do concerning WaWa and their firearm policy.

[HiredGoon]

I entered the building and stopped at the receptionist/dispatchers desk. I asked if Officer _____ was still on shift. She replied that he was and asked my name. When I told her my name, as she was picking up the phone to call him up front, she repeated my name and nodded her head while smiling and said, "Oh yeah." I asked her if the name sounded familiar and she nodded and smiled. I said, "You must have heard my name over the radio earlier today, huh?" She replied, "Yes I did."

After a quick read, just wondered about the part above. I don't think you mentioned in your post about the officer "calling you in" on the radio???

[GL23]

After a quick read, just wondered about the part above. I don't think you mentioned in your post about the officer "calling you in" on the radio???

He didn't do it while we were talking, but judging from her reaction upon hearing my name, he must have radioed in the PED stop to dispatch after I left, or told her when he got back to the station.

[HiredGoon]

He didn't do it while we were talking, but judging from her reaction upon hearing my name, he must have radioed in the PED stop to dispatch after I left, or told her when he got back to the station.

Ah, OK, gotcha.

You might want to carry copies of the MPOETC training info as well for the next "yet-to-attend-2009-training" officer you meet

[tes151]

Since the manager only asked the LEO why you had a gun, and not asked you to leave, I would just keep doing what you've been doing. No reason for you to change your routine.

[wa3ra]

Unnecessary stop, but all-in-all, I think you both did great!

[Pa. Patriot]

OP did great. As did the LEO. In a case of an LEO not knowing the legality, it could hardl have gone better.

As for the ID, that's a judgment call and a personal thing. In tHe OP's case it was not a big deal.

[jahwarrior72]

i think you handled that pretty well, and so did the LEO. he never demanded you cover up, he only admitted he didn't know if it were legal or not. the use of the word "brandishing" might have been a bit strong, but otherwise, he wasn't being a dick. kudos to both of you.

[PennsyPlinker]

I will add my voice to the "ya done good" crowd. The only think I would have done differently, and have done in the past, was ask to speak to the manager on the way out the door, just to make sure that the manager did in fact speak to him and he wasn't just invoking the manager's title to lend authority to his request to see your LTCF.

In the one case where one guy was in the midst of throwing me out of the store, I asked to see the manager and he reversed the loss prevention guy right there on the spot.