New York Times makes certain comparison between US and 1930s Nazi Germany

[King 5.45]

And by extension, Obama would be?

Stimulus Thinking, and Nuance

By DAVID LEONHARDT
Published: March 31, 2009

Every so often, history serves up an analogy that’s uncomfortable, a little distracting and yet still very relevant.

In the summer of 1933, just as they will do on Thursday, heads of government and their finance ministers met in London to talk about a global economic crisis. They accomplished little and went home to battle the crisis in their own ways.

More than any other country, Germany — Nazi Germany — then set out on a serious stimulus program. The government built up the military, expanded the autobahn, put up stadiums for the 1936 Berlin Olympics and built monuments to the Nazi Party across Munich and Berlin.

The economic benefits of this vast works program never flowed to most workers, because fascism doesn’t look kindly on collective bargaining. But Germany did escape the Great Depression faster than other countries. Corporate profits boomed, and unemployment sank (and not because of slave labor, which didn’t become widespread until later). Harold James, an economic historian, says that the young liberal economists studying under John Maynard Keynes in the 1930s began to debate whether Hitler had solved unemployment.

No sane person enjoys mixing nuance and Nazis, but this bit of economic history has a particular importance this week. In the run-up to the G-20 meeting, European leaders have resisted calls for more government spending. Last week, the European Union president, Mirek Topolanek, echoed a line from AC/DC — whom he had just heard in concert — and described the Obama administration’s stimulus plan as “a road to hell.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/bu...4&ref=business

[Evolution]

I need to spread some first, but rep is coming eventually. From the N.Y Times? wow. Thanks for posting this!

[Morel42]

Some Factual errors in that article..

The Autobahn was STARTED under Hitler, using slave labor first German Pesants, and then Gypsies and other undesirables, using hand tools and little or no heavy machinery.

All the monuments and buildings that allowed Germany to Host the Olympics was built by a workforce paid by laughable standards.. They could do this because the economy was so bankrupt and destroyed by WW1 and Reperations that the Gov't was allowed to put price controls in place that basically locked inflation and the money supply in a vice grip. They controled the price of every item you could purchance with fiat money. Bartering was still a very commonplace thing during those days, so the impact of these policies didn't have the immediate negative effects before Germany Invaded Poland.

To Narrow down how the Nazi's ran their "economy" to what is currently going on is akin to describing a 747 is similar to a kite. It's a VAST Generalization that doesn't take into account the thousands of other influences on the subject which can (and has) filled entire volumes of books.

The Nazi Government used slave labor for the majority of their "grunt work" and I say slaves while others don't because the people were payed, but they were given NO choice in wiether or not to do the work. The "typical" slave labor didn't start until the late 1930's. Later on they used the spoils of conqured nations to purchace materials from other nations.. Or just stripped the same nations of their industrial output to finance their own war.

Economic stimulus did not exist in Nazi Germany. The closest thing they had was Hilter ordered no food rationing at all until the last worse days of the war. That was only to keep morale up for the general population to give the image that all was well. However food workers, producers, and farm owners had no say at all on market price, production levels, or labor laws (which was basically, pick this fruit or we'll kill you) it was only when they simply ran out of men did shortages become commonplace.

Labor is the key. It always has been.

If one can remove labor as a limitation of creation then you can literally create entire cities with nothing. You force people to mine the ore and rock, you force people to transport it, you force people to create it, and you force people to build it. Everything you buy today is priced ultimatly on how much it cost to PAY people to create that object. They pay people to produce the raw materials, they pay others to transport it, they pay even more people to produce it, and then transport the finished product, and in turn others are payed to build and operate the story you purchanced that object.

NO "thing" has a value intrinsict to it. The value comes from what effort it takes to produce it. It's just metal/plastic/ore..

[Decholder]

And by extension, Obama would be?

Interesting theory, but one thing sticks out in my mind...I don't think that the O man would ever support a drastic increase of the military. As it is, he seems to be doing his best to aggravate those in the service.

[ThomasJ]

It wasn't fascism, it was socialism. It had the surface appearance of a capitalism, but it wasn't. the owners were not in control of the means of production; the government was.

[King 5.45]

Interesting theory, but one thing sticks out in my mind...I don't think that the O man would ever support a drastic increase of the military. As it is, he seems to be doing his best to aggravate those in the service.

Yeah, right.



I hate Illinois "brown-shirts."

[Brick]

Some points to remember regarding 1930's Germany.

1. Hitler was elected by the German people. He ran on a platform of change.

2. Germany was smarting under the humiliation Versailles Treaty. Most veterans believed they had been betrayed.

3. The Weimar Republic was very weak, so much so in fact that they had to hire "Freikorps" regiments to enforce law in the country. The freikorps were mercenary military units formed "privately" and manned by WW I veterans. Many freikorps units became Sturm Abteilung and later Schutzstaffel.

By the way ThomasJ don't forget the term Nazi was short for National Socialist. (Nationalsozialismus) and the party was formally named, National Socialist German Workers’ Party

4. The Great Depression caused tremendous inflation in Germany. It was said that a wheelbarrow full of money was needed to buy a loaf of bread and that normally thrifty Germans would receive a postage stamp for their entire life savings.

5. While it is arguable that Hitler "knew" what he was doing, the fact that the German economy was rebuilt under his leadership cannot be considered all bad. Even if it took "minimum wage" or corvee labor to do it.

[Coops]

Mirek Topolanek, echoed a line from AC/DC — whom he had just heard in concert — and described the Obama administration’s stimulus plan as “a road to hell.”

The translation should have been "Highway to Hell"

[Pector55]

I was born in one country, raised in another. My father was born in another country. I was not his only child. He fathered several children with numerous women.

I became very close to my mother, as my father showed no interest in me. My mother died at an early age from cancer.

Later in life, questions arose over my real name.

My birth records were sketchy and no one was able to produce a legitimate, reliable birth certificate.

I grew up practicing one faith but converted to Christianity, as it was widely accepted in my country, but

I practiced non-traditional beliefs and didn't follow Christianity, except in the public eye under scrutiny.

I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising myself as someone who really cared about them.

That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I embarked on a new career.

I wrote a book about my struggles growing up. It was clear to those who read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned me as a child.

I became active in local politics in my 30's then with help behind the scenes, I literally burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office in my 40's. They said I had a golden tongue and could talk anyone into anything. That reinforced my conceit.

I had a virtually non-existent resume, little work history, and no experience in leading a single organization. Yet I was a powerful speaker and citizens were drawn to me as though I were a magnet and they were small roofing tacks..

I drew incredibly large crowds during my public appearances.. This bolstered my ego.

At first, my political campaign focused on my country's foreign policy.
I was very critical of my country in the last war and seized every opportunity to bash my country.

But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the country's economy. I pretended to have a really good plan on how we could do better and every poor person would be fed and housed for free.

I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess. It was the free market, banks and corporations. I decided to start making citizens hate them and if they were envious of others who did well, the plan was clinched tight.

I called mine "A People's Campaign" and that sounded good to all people.

I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the traditional path of politics and was able to gain widespread popular support.

I knew that, if I merely offered the people 'hope' , together we could change our country and the world.

So, I started to make my speeches sound like they were on behalf of the downtrodden, poor, ignorant to include "persecuted minorities" like the Jews. My true views were not widely known and I needed to keep them unknown, until after I became my nation's leader.

I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out what I really believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined those people I associated with.

I'm glad they didn't. It allowed me to become the most powerful man in the world.
And then the world learned the truth.

Who am I?



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ADOLF HITLER. (Duhhh).

WHO WERE YOU THINKING OF?

[Decholder]

Yeah, right.

Wow, hadn't seen that one before....While he's basically saying that the military is a bunch of push-overs, he's also hinting at supporting what? The Obama SS?