Home defense, the Shotgun and you.

[RaisedByWolves]

[Disclaimer] In no way do I consider myself an expert on shotgun handling and or theory of how to use one on a CQB situation, but I would like to discuss some things I have learnt on a Tactical Shotgun forum here in this thread. [/Disclaimer]



The Shotgun is an awesome weapon no doubt, but sometimes I believe it is viewed as more than what it actually is. This is the reason I have started this thread. There is a lot of misinformation going on on the net (and in the real world) about what a shotgun will do.


Let me point out some examples of what a shotgun wont do:



The sound of a shotgun being racked wont make some tweeked out meth head drop your goods and run screaming.

The real world doesn't register to the drug addled mind of a Tweeker/crack head thief, so I maintain the sound you make with your wonder weapon will do nothing more than give away your position and the element of surprise.


A shotgun with the wrong ammo wont stop an attack.


Shooting these Tweeker/Zombie/Crack head/Rapists/ is fun, all the cool kids are doing it. But, if you think that any or all shotgun ammo will do the trick, you might as well just rack the slide, count on that scary noise doing the trick and go back to bed.


What you need to do is look at your house, its contents and occupants and then determine the type of round you will need to effectively stop the maximum sustained attack that could go on inside your house. Now, the term "Maximum sustained attack" is a bunch of big scary words, but think about this, Have you done any good if you kill 2 out of 3 bad guys before they kill you? Is your family safe if this happens? Are you really out any if you stop your attacker with extreme prejudice and still have rounds left in the gun?


Heres my take based on what I have learned.


If you find yourself in a dark room with an intruder you need to do two things, #1 Identify the threat, #2 Neutralize the threat to stop the attack. Racking the slide wont work, Firing a warning shot wont work, yelling "Freeze Muthafukah" Wont work. The only thing proven to work is Disassembling connective tissue, destroying major organs, destroying the Central nervous system and causing Bleed out in short order. The necessity of these things happening is what makes the shotgun such a good choice in the first place.


Sometimes guns just out and out kill people. Other times a person can get all shot to hell and still be able to walk or use their arms with enough mobility to continue the fight. Using the wrong round and shooting the guy up without stopping his heart, destroying his brain, rendering his central nervous system inoperable via disconnection or shock or severing his spinal cord will not guaranty you walk away from the fight or even live through it.



Rounds like #4 will do quite a bit of damage up close, but at anything over 7-10yrds its effectiveness diminishes greatly. This is why for me the use of OO Buck is a minimum requirement. I know there will be controversy over this statement due to over penetration fears, but let me state this and it can be debated.


Anything that will sever the spinal cord, disrupt the central nervous system, penetrate the skull or penetrate deep enough to stop the heart and/or cause rapid bleed out will penetrate walls quite easily. Know your suroundings and hit your target!




Now, having said this, let me show you what I face if trying to defend my home.


Here we have one of my problem areas, the one I call "The hallway of DOOM". This hallway is so Farked up from a defensive standpoint I cant even get a decent picture of it, It just sucks all the way around and the architect should be flogged. From where Im taking this pic, my back is against the end of a T shaped hallway and it goes off directly to my right and left. THERE IS NO EXIT but to go forwards from where this picture was taken into the livingroom and twords the front door which is at the far wall. That Monstrosity you see in the foreground is an ancient Boat anchor of a rear projection TV and is the only cover I would have in this situation. Its not much good as a TV, even worse as cover. It may do as concealment, but I digress..... This thing wouldnt provide cover as pistol rounds would sail right through it. The only option in this case would to be to shoot right back through this obstacle and for this I would prefer OO or Slugs to get the job done.










Heres another reason I would choose OO or Slugs, the 22yrd distance from the end of the living room to the end of the kitchen. This area here provides many issues concerning cover, but its the distance from where Im at to the fridge that concerns me when talking about anything smaller than OO Buck. Most other rounds will spread out too much at this distance to do any major damage. It also wont penetrate the Fridge and its contents with sufficient energy left to do any real damage IF I get a hit on the BG. That fridge is the only real cover in the kitchen and with OO Buck or especially with slugs the bggest issue would be how long it will take the coroner to figure out why theres so much Bovine and poultry DNA inside the BG.















Now Im not saying my methodology will guarantee me a victory over the forces of Evil if I need to use deadly force against an attack inside my home, but I think theres something to be said for thinking things like this through and evaluating the options you have way before the need ever arises.



Im tired right now and I cant fully get my head around everything else there is to say, so for now.....Discuss.


.

[RaisedByWolves]

Not all SG rounds are created equal.



Neither are the guns themselves. The only way to guarantee that your gun will go BANG when you need it to is to practice loading it, running it, and handling it with the ammo you choose to defend yourself with. Theres lots of ammo choices out there, some good and some that make a very poor choice for home defense. I like 3" magnum Buck loads, boy are they fun! Ill shoot them suckers till my shoulder falls off at the range and come home grinning a mile wide.


But their the last thing I would use for an HD situation.


Not only can I not imagine the deafening sound of these rounds being shot indoors, but the sheer power of them makes for a poor choice for a CQB situation. Im 6' 275lbs and these things throw me around quite a bit, far too much to make a quick follow up shot if need be. Fun? Yeah, but not good if someone is shooting back at you.


Heres one of my favorite HD rounds.
http://le.atk.com/general/federalpro...csnbcksht.aspx







Now, this stuff isint cheap, but it is that good that I dont mind the cost of practising with it. Its an 8 ball round which lowers recoil and bumps velocity slightly. Out of my 590A1 it makes 1 hole groups at 10yrds and opens up to about 14-16" or so at 25yrds, this is out of a cylinder bore barrel, pretty slick. Will it do the same out of your gun? Another 590A1? Cant say as every shotgun, even two that with consecutive SN's will shoot the same ammo slightly differently.


This is why practise and ammo choice is so important. Your shotgun may not like to feed certain ammo, either. My gun eats most stuff but chokes on cheap remmingtom Trap loads. It will eat Winchester 3" and Remmington Express without complaint, but some other 3" shells hang up and wont always werx smoothly.



Again, dont just rely on your gun working when you need it without doing your part. These guns are great for defense, but their not magic.

[Lycanthrope]

If I have to hole up in one room and play defensive, the shotgun is my number one option. Hits harder than a pistol and points better if you need to shoot in darkness. Handles just as fast in my hands. Recoil and sound are not concerns.

Going on the offensive?......too hard to work angles with in my house.

Lycangetstheballrollingthrope

[Rauswaffen]

My preferred round. 6 #1 buck pellets and 1 .65 lead ball, bring it.

[RaisedByWolves]

That Centurion ammo, Rhodesian Jungle loads and Buck and Ball have always intrigued me, but the advise I was given was to steer clear of it for HD use. The logic behind this is that while it will prove to be Extremely effective in stopping the attack, it may be a little outside of the norm if you have to use it and wind up in front of a judge or worse......A Jury. The Prosecutors job is to prosecute, and he will most likely latch onto this given the chance and will make you out to be a maniac out looking to do the poor robber harm.



OO Buck will most likely be as effective as those loads, yet it is a common shell. Pictury yourself trying to explain to some old granny sitting on a jury why you used what you did. Her husband, father, unkle probably mentioned Buck shot a time or two and it will be seen as run of the mill ammo and that you used what you had to defend yourself. Going out to buy something special to mow down humans, no matter how justified, opens a door best left closed.




Theres also a lot of talk about how devistating Bird shot can be, and true it will create a horrific wound, but it just dosent penetrate well enough to guarantee the fight will end and end soon. It also has a nasty habit of flying in unintended directions should it come in contact with non flesh obstacles. Keep in mind, you are responsible for every pellet fired out of the gun, the more pellets the greater the chance there is that something could go wrong.


The same is true for the higher numbers of buck, certainly to a lesser extent, but why take chances.. Stick with 00 or #1.


.

[NoName008]

The Shotgun is an awesome weapon no doubt, but sometimes I believe it is viewed as more than what it actually is.

I agree with the above statement.
The phrase "a shotgun is the best home defense weapon...you don't have to aim just point and shoot" is heard too much.

It may be that I'm just not as comfortable with my 870, but I personally can't think of a scenario when I would rather grab my shotgun over my handgun.

I guess it just comes down to what you're most comfortable with.

[Pa. Patriot]

Color me odd... But I prefer the shorter, lighter, more ergonomic and faster handling carbine over the shotty for HD

But YMMV

[Rauswaffen]

Color me odd... But I prefer the shorter, lighter, more ergonomic and faster handling carbine over the shotty for HD

But YMMV

What Carbine do you have? I was looking into possibly getting one so the Fiancee can use something effectively. The 12 gauge knocks her 105lbs frame around a little bit.

[Pa. Patriot]

What Carbine do you have? I was looking into possibly getting one so the Fiancee can use something effectively. The 12 gauge knocks her 105lbs frame around a little bit.

A custom built (I know a good gunsmith ) AR-15 Or two...

[jsb889]

My family sleeps all over the house. I really would have to be sure of my target before any shot is taken. Plus I can't just hole up in my room.

That said, its pistol and bright-as-balls light time if that situation ever occurs.