Can't wait to se the outcome

[ira82]

Found this article in news. Can't wait to see the outcome whether they really are guilty or is this just the fed flexing their muscles again aka ruby ridge, waco.

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4 arrested in Nev. probe of anti-government group


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Mar 7, 2:16 AM (ET)

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LAS VEGAS (AP) - Four members of an anti-government group have been arrested on charges that include money laundering, tax evasion and weapons possession, federal prosecutors said Friday.

Authorities said the four men are members of the Sovereign Movement, a group that attempts to overthrow the government and defy authority with "paper terrorism." The arrests in Las Vegas on Thursday capped a three-year investigation into the group's activities led by the Nevada Joint Terrorism Task Force, U.S. Attorney for Nevada Greg Brower said.

A grand jury indictment in federal court in Las Vegas names Samuel Davis, 54, of Council, Idaho; Shawn Rice, 46, of Seligman, Ariz.; Harold Call, 67, of Las Vegas; and Jan Lindsey, of Henderson.

Davis and Rice are accused of laundering roughly $1.3 million for undercover FBI agents, who described the money as loot from a bank fraud scheme. Davis and Rice are charged with one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering and 30 counts of money laundering. If convicted, they face up to 20 years in prison and a $500,000 fine on each count.

Davis was described by prosecutors as a national leader in the Sovereign Movement, whose members believe government licenses, taxes and currency are invalid. Rice described himself as a lawyer and rabbi devoted to anti-government teaching, authorities said.

Davis and Rice pleaded not guilty in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas late Friday. Call and Lindsey also were due to appear in court. Authorities did not know if the four had lawyers.

Brower's office said Call and Lindsey, a retired FBI agent, are leaders of the Nevada Lawmen Group for Public Awareness, a group affiliated with the Sovereign Movement.

Call is accused of possessing an unregistered machine gun, as well as parts designed to convert manual firearms into automatic weapons.

He faces two counts of possession and transfer of a machine gun and three counts of possession of an unregistered machine gun. If convicted, he could get up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine on each count.

Lindsey is charged with one count of evasion of payment of tax and four counts of evasion of assessment of tax. He faces up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine on each count.

[AxiTech]

I haven't seen the story, but base my response on what you posted. With that in mind, Did anyone else get the feeling that the entire case is hinged on money laundering for the FBI? Can you say 'entrapment'? I get so very sick of LEO types trying to ruin peoples lives with sneaky tricks. Catch them dirty and try them, but don't entice them into committing life-wrecking mistakes. This is the same shit that they used to kill most of the Weaver family. "Could you possible shorten the barrel on my rodent gun?" "Oops, you are under arrest. Now, be our snitch and do our job for us, or we'll murder your family!"
If I recall correctly the deal at Waco was hinged on Janet Reno trumping up some ridiculous charges against Koresh. Granted all of these folks did something wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right. Trumping up charges and painting entire families into corners and then pushing some more until they react violently is wrong too.
Just my opinion, but Law Enforcement in this country has gotten a bit out of control. Not all cops, just enough to make most 'suspect' in the normal person's mind. When one LEO causes distrust he wrecks trust in all cops. Worse is when the rest line up and protect the one. I think that the beginning of the end of good law enforcement was when we started allowing cops to blouse their boots as if they were some type of pseudo-Rambo types. They aren't soldiers, most couldn't make it a single day in combat. Some could, granted, but the fact remains, they aren't soldiers and should dress like what they are, 'public servants'. Do that and they might start to get the right mind-set back, and that will lead to renewed respect.
I did not mean to hijack your thread, and hope it stays on the track you intended.

[ira82]

Not hijacked at all my friend. All good points. Again with waco it was the same type of setup if i recall and the two events were only months apart so the fed was just trying to redem themselves and only dug a deeper hole. They had the same sniper for the fbi at each situation popping shots he shouldnt have. Lon hiruichi was at both situations with the fbi on their sniper teams. So he commited a crime at the first and then months later he is still on duty and does that same thng and then in the end never gets charged for anything cause he is a govt official. Waco they didnt like the fact that he was stockpiling weapons and had a gathering that believed the govt was evil and basically cause the world to end. Believe they tried to get him for some type of weapons charge as he caught wind of this and even invited the atf to the compound to inspect the weapons to see they werent illegal. They denied the invite. Both of these event were all politically motivated and the fed damaged their rep. They will do it again though just wait and see.

[fingers80002]

With Holder around, it is a guarantee!!!!!!

[ira82]

yes well he was a former clinton administration official so it happened on his watch your right.

[edstephan]

The 1st steps in stopping anti-government dissention.
Watch for more to come in the very near future


An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%
Ed Stephan

[ira82]

Nothing anti govt here. Just a firm believer that we the people have the power not the govt. They have proven on their own they cant do things right. The govt works for us and we need to reclaim that attitude.

[scotty2hotty89]

I tried to post this earlier in the news forum but it never came up; I guess it wasn’t approved.

I had looked up the Sovereign Movement, and they don’t seem like a very good group. However anytime a group of people whose purpose is to oppose the gov gets locked up, we all need to pay attention.

I haven’t decided how I feel about this whole thing yet. From what I can tell, these guys were pretty criminal. I think that they need to be prosecuted for the crimes they committed. Although I don’t like the group, and I hate saying this, there is a part of me that wants to be sympathetic towards them. They weren’t violent and they were purposely trying to stand up for the way of life that our founding fathers planned for us (I know they didn’t want us to be money launderers). My point is that it can be hard to differentiate between criminals and people exercising civil disobedience.

[AxiTech]

I tried to post this earlier in the news forum but it never came up; I guess it wasn’t approved.

I had looked up the Sovereign Movement, and they don’t seem like a very good group. However anytime a group of people whose purpose is to oppose the gov gets locked up, we all need to pay attention.

I haven’t decided how I feel about this whole thing yet. From what I can tell, these guys were pretty criminal. I think that they need to be prosecuted for the crimes they committed. Although I don’t like the group, and I hate saying this, there is a part of me that wants to be sympathetic towards them. They weren’t violent and they were purposely trying to stand up for the way of life that our founding fathers planned for us (I know they didn’t want us to be money launderers). My point is that it can be hard to differentiate between criminals and people exercising civil disobedience.

__________________________________________________ _______________
You make valid points, however, think about this: The article that is on the front page the morning after they kick the door at YOUR house and haul you away for plotting against the Gov, and for having a CACHE of weapons and a massive stockpile of ammo, is that article going to make you look like 'neighbor of the year'? You do know they are coming, don't you? I mean, if I were you , I'd be looking out the window right now and waiting for them. Maybe hide the wife and kids under the bed so they don't catch a stray round. They are coming for you. How could you NOT be on their list? You frequent a 'known anti-government' site, and you are known to communicate with 'unsavory' types.
You do know, don'tyou, that this is exactly the way you will be painted when they finally get around to you. Please, don't take this the wrong way, I do not wish to come off as attacking you. I'm trying to show you how easy it is to 'paint' someone as evil. When they do this type of thing, the first step is to demonize the target. Get public opinion on their side. After they have the public seeing you in their light, they can pretty much ass-rape you, your wife and kids in the street in front of City Hall and nobody will lift a finger to stop it. After all, you had all those evil weapons and ammo, and they were able to get you to launder their illegal money, and you knew people who cheated on their taxes, You must be evil. By the way, can you absolutely, without reservation, swear that nobody you know cheats on their taxes? Note, I did not ask "Do you swear that you don't know OF anybody who cheats on their taxes?" Nobody can swear they don't know anybody who cheats on their taxes, because you don't know if they do or not. But, you see how it makes you look. You hang out with a tax evader! You had to be removed from society. THIS IS HOW IT IS DONE! The best part, the media won't give you a chance to rebut any of it. Oh, they will talk to you, and then they will snip this and edit that and wind up with you making yourself look even guiltier.
COOL, HUH?

[AxiTech]

A note about Waco: I have a friend who is a meter reader for the gas company in Waco. According to him, Koresh and his people were regulars in town. Quirky, yes, but nice folks minding their own business. My buddy was in the Kawasaki dealership looking at bikes and David Koresh was at the parts counter buying spark plugs for a generator. Government Agents were outside in the van watching him. This was three days before the siege started.
Point is: They could have walked in and taken him peacefully right there. No , they chose to do the very thing they KNEW would drive him and his people to a frenzy. Blockade, cut off water, electric, blare rock music 24/7(which by the way, Koresh and friends had sworn off listening to rock music, this act alone would force them further into paranoia) keep the whole compound lit brightly so nobody inside could sleep. Yeah, that whole mess was a carefully orchestrated massacre! If I were King Of The USA, I would drag everybody involved on the govt side into a courtroom and try them, convict them and throw away the key. Except for Lon (the murderer) Horiuchi. Him I would hang from the tree out front of the courthouse.