HB 762 - Sale Transfer or loan of firearms

[Brick]

Text not available at this time

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...&type=B&bn=762

Regular Session 2009-2010
House Bill 762


Short Title: An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the offense of sale or transfer of firearms and for loans on or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
Prime Sponsor: Representative PETRI

[King 5.45]

I don't understand these people. It's ALWAYS been illegal to use firearms in this state as loan collateral, ALWAYS. It's one of the reasons that dealers can get edgy when people sell stuff and then have second thoughts amd amt to buy it back. What's so special about this legislation that it's going to make it any more illegal?

Never mind. I forced myself to read it. Here's the obnoxious bit:

30
	

§ 6115.  Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.

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1* * *

2(b)  Exception.--

3* * *

4(3)  Nothing in this section shall be construed to

5prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another:

6(i)  in one's dwelling or place of business if the

7firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of

8business[.]; or

9(ii)  at any place of instruction intended to teach

10the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms so long

11as the person who receives the firearm does not leave the

12place of instruction with the firearm.

13* * *

I suppose the real impact of this is whatever they've arbitrarily decided to consider a firearm this year.

[gnbrotz]

It removes the current ability to loan to any LTCF holder, for any reason.

[Brick]

Not to be boorish about things. But every now and then it would be a good idea to read the section on the General Assembly website about "How To Read A Bill". In the case of a bill that amends an existing section, it is typical that the original text is reproduced. BUT, bracketed text [like this] is text that will be removed from the NEW section and underlined text like this is text that will be added. Please see: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/how_to_read.htm

As to the changes proposed here, King5.45 need not worry about pawning a gun since it remains unchanged, the text he quotes is merely part of the original law. But, of concern to all of us should be the fact that Greg is correct in that this proposed law eliminates the ability to lend a firearm to another LTCF for his use at a remote location. For example, I could not lend a pistol to an LTCF buddy for him to use in a bullseye match at some other location, if I wasn't going to be there.



PRINTER'S NO. 852

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA
HOUSE BILL No. 762 Session of 2009
INTRODUCED BY PETRI, BOYD, BROWN, CIVERA, CUTLER, EVERETT, FAIRCHILD, FRANKEL, FREEMAN, GEIST, GOODMAN, HICKERNELL, KILLION, MELIO, O'NEILL, SIPTROTH, VULAKOVICH AND YOUNGBLOOD, MARCH 6, 2009

REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY, MARCH 6, 2009

AN ACT

1 Amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania
2 Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the offense of
3 sale or transfer of firearms and for loans on or lending or
4 giving firearms prohibited.
5 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
6 hereby enacts as follows:
7 Section 1. Section 6111(g)(2) and (h) heading and (1) of
8 Title 18 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes are amended
9 and subsection (h) is amended by adding a paragraph to read:
10 § 6111. Sale or transfer of firearms.
11 * * *
12 (g) Penalties.--
13 * * *
14 (2) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer
15 or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells,
16 delivers or transfers a firearm under circumstances intended
17 to provide a firearm to any person, purchaser or transferee
18 who is [unqualified or ineligible to control, possess or use
1 a firearm under this chapter] prohibited from possessing,
2 using, controlling, selling or manufacturing a firearm under
3 section 6105 commits a felony of the third degree and shall,
4 in addition, be subject to revocation of the license to sell
5 firearms for a period of three years.
6 * * *
7 (h) [Subsequent violation penalty] Mandatory minimum
8 sentence.--
9 (1) [A second or subsequent violation of this section
10 shall be a felony of the second degree and shall be
11 punishable by a mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of
12 five years. A second or subsequent offense shall also result
13 in permanent revocation of any license to sell, import or
14 manufacture a firearm.] The following violations shall be a
15 felony of the second degree and shall be punishable by a
16 mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years:
17 (i) a second or subsequent violation of this
18 section, regardless of whether a firearm was involved; or
19 (ii) a violation of subsection (g)(2) if the seller
20 or transferer knows that the purchaser, transferee or the
21 final intended recipient has been convicted of a crime of
22 violence as defined in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9714(g) (relating to
23 sentences for second and subsequent offenses).
24 (1.1) A violation under paragraph (1)(i) or (ii)
25 shall also result in the permanent revocation of any
26 license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm.
27 * * *
28 Section 2. Section 6115(b)(3) of Title 18 is amended to
29 read:
30 § 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
20090HB0762PN0852
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1 * * *
2 (b) Exception.--
3 * * *
4 (3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to
5 prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another:
6 (i) in one's dwelling or place of business if the
7 firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of
8 business[.] ; or
9 (ii) at any place of instruction intended to teach
10 the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms so long
11 as the person who receives the firearm does not leave the
12 place of instruction with the firearm.
13 * * *
14 Section 3. The Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and
15 Delinquency shall establish a public information campaign aimed
16 at areas of high rates of violent crime informing the public of
17 the five-year mandatory sentence established by 18 Pa.C.S. §
18 6111(h). The commission shall seek all available funding,
19 including Federal funding or funding available from nonprofit
20 corporations, and shall seek to engage pro bono services from
21 public relations and advertising firms and other entities.
22 Section 4. This act shall take effect in 60 days.

20090HB0762PN0852
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[King 5.45]

Not to be boorish about things. But every now and then it would be a good idea to read the section on the General Assembly website about "How To Read A Bill". In the case of a bill that amends an existing section, it is typical that the original text is reproduced. BUT, bracketed text [like this] is text that will be removed from the NEW section and underlined text like this is text that will be added. Please see: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/how_to_read.htm

As to the changes proposed here, King5.45 need not worry about pawning a gun since it remains unchanged, the text he quotes is merely part of the original law. But, of concern to all of us should be the fact that Greg is correct in that this proposed law eliminates the ability to lend a firearm to another LTCF for his use at a remote location. For example, I could not lend a pistol to an LTCF buddy for him to use in a bullseye match at some other location, if I wasn't going to be there.



PRINTER'S NO. 852

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA
HOUSE BILL No. 762 Session of 2009
INTRODUCED BY PETRI, BOYD, BROWN, CIVERA, CUTLER, EVERETT, FAIRCHILD, FRANKEL, FREEMAN, GEIST, GOODMAN, HICKERNELL, KILLION, MELIO, O'NEILL, SIPTROTH, VULAKOVICH AND YOUNGBLOOD, MARCH 6, 2009

REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY, MARCH 6, 2009

AN ACT

1 Amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania
2 Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the offense of
3 sale or transfer of firearms and for loans on or lending or
4 giving firearms prohibited.
5 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
6 hereby enacts as follows:
7 Section 1. Section 6111(g)(2) and (h) heading and (1) of
8 Title 18 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes are amended
9 and subsection (h) is amended by adding a paragraph to read:
10 § 6111. Sale or transfer of firearms.
11 * * *
12 (g) Penalties.--
13 * * *
14 (2) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer
15 or licensed importer who knowingly or intentionally sells,
16 delivers or transfers a firearm under circumstances intended
17 to provide a firearm to any person, purchaser or transferee
18 who is [unqualified or ineligible to control, possess or use
1 a firearm under this chapter] prohibited from possessing,
2 using, controlling, selling or manufacturing a firearm under
3 section 6105 commits a felony of the third degree and shall,
4 in addition, be subject to revocation of the license to sell
5 firearms for a period of three years.
6 * * *
7 (h) [Subsequent violation penalty] Mandatory minimum
8 sentence.--
9 (1) [A second or subsequent violation of this section
10 shall be a felony of the second degree and shall be
11 punishable by a mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of
12 five years. A second or subsequent offense shall also result
13 in permanent revocation of any license to sell, import or
14 manufacture a firearm.] The following violations shall be a
15 felony of the second degree and shall be punishable by a
16 mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years:
17 (i) a second or subsequent violation of this
18 section, regardless of whether a firearm was involved; or
19 (ii) a violation of subsection (g)(2) if the seller
20 or transferer knows that the purchaser, transferee or the
21 final intended recipient has been convicted of a crime of
22 violence as defined in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9714(g) (relating to
23 sentences for second and subsequent offenses).
24 (1.1) A violation under paragraph (1)(i) or (ii)
25 shall also result in the permanent revocation of any
26 license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm.
27 * * *
28 Section 2. Section 6115(b)(3) of Title 18 is amended to
29 read:
30 § 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
20090HB0762PN0852
- 2 -
1 * * *
2 (b) Exception.--
3 * * *
4 (3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to
5 prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another:
6 (i) in one's dwelling or place of business if the
7 firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of
8 business[.] ; or
9 (ii) at any place of instruction intended to teach
10 the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms so long
11 as the person who receives the firearm does not leave the
12 place of instruction with the firearm.
13 * * *
14 Section 3. The Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and
15 Delinquency shall establish a public information campaign aimed
16 at areas of high rates of violent crime informing the public of
17 the five-year mandatory sentence established by 18 Pa.C.S. §
18 6111(h). The commission shall seek all available funding,
19 including Federal funding or funding available from nonprofit
20 corporations, and shall seek to engage pro bono services from
21 public relations and advertising firms and other entities.
22 Section 4. This act shall take effect in 60 days.

20090HB0762PN0852
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Try reading posts in their complete context, Brick. I broke down and read the linked bill and realized that it wasn't restating the illegality of pawning weapons, thus the edit and the quoted part of what does concern us, the inability to loan firearms outside of a range visit.

[Brick]

Gee King, sorry I jerked your chain. But I usually guess that people put the most important "objects" first, so I thought legislative "restatement of the obvious" was what bothered you.

But if you didn't like the section regarding loan I'll bet you really despise this part.

"The following violations shall be a
15 felony of the second degree and shall be punishable by a
16 mandatory minimum sentence of imprisonment of five years:
17 (i) a second or subsequent violation of this
18 section, regardless of whether a firearm was involved; or
19 (ii) a violation of subsection (g)(2) if the seller
20 or transferer knows that the purchaser, transferee or the
21 final intended recipient has been convicted of a crime of
22 violence as defined in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9714(g) (relating to
23 sentences for second and subsequent offenses).
24 (1.1) A violation under paragraph (1)(i) or (ii)
25 shall also result in the permanent revocation of any
26 license to sell, import or manufacture a firearm."

[ReconLdr]

Ok, I think I am more confused now than I was before... Under the new Bill my wife can not carry a pistol that I own? I did not read this in the Bill text but one of the comments about loaning a LTCF holder a pistol for competition usage would be illegal. This leads me to a few questions:

1. I thought a firearms registry was unlawful? So how do they know who purchased the firearm?

I currently store most of my guns at my parents house (the Army won't let me have a gun safe in the barracks) so:
2. If I can't store them where I live, I can't have them?
3. What about if I had my own gun safe and it just happend to be at my parents house?

Please explain...

[tl_3237]

It removes the current ability to loan to any LTCF holder, for any reason.

I broke down and read the linked bill and realized that it wasn't restating the illegality of pawning weapons, thus the edit and the quoted part of what does concern us, the inability to loan firearms outside of a range visit.

Ok, I think I am more confused now than I was before... Under the new Bill my wife can not carry a pistol that I own? I did not read this in the Bill text but one of the comments about loaning a LTCF holder a pistol for competition usage would be illegal.

OK Now I'm also confused. Loaning to LTCF is 6115(b)(1)(i). This bill doesn't change that subsection - it just seems to add the range exception to 6115(b)(3).


AS I read it (b)(1)(i) remains in full force and so I can carry my wife's firearms or loan to another LTCF

[gnbrotz]

so I can carry my wife's firearms.

Spouses are already exempt from transfer requirements, so you can pass it back and forth even absent the current LTCF loan exception.

[tl_3237]

It removes the current ability to loan to any LTCF holder, for any reason.

Not so.

The main thrust of my post is that there is no change regarding loan to another LTCF. This is not diminution of exceptions in 6115(b) just the addition of the range exception. All previous exceptions remain in force even after this bill get passed.