Newbie scope question help please

[Rustedwho]

Im looking to get an ar-15 and a cheap acog for on it. I've found one that seems to be ok but im concerned about distance capabilities. It is a 3-9x42 scope. Considering buying it but would like to see what a maximum distance would be for something like that. Whatever I get, i'd like to be able to hit 600 yards with. Basically, is a scope of that magnification able to see detail at that distance? Im new to this so please dont bash too hard :P

Thanks for any input you guys may have.

Im sure the gun can do it, really just concerned about the scope. Here's a link to it just if your wondering
http://www.amazon.com/NcSTAR%C2%AE-9...6233236&sr=1-9

OR

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemD...px?sku=SCP-119 ( kinda like this one better, almost exact same thing? )

[JayBell]

First, neither of the scopes you linked to is an ACOG... an ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight) is made by Trijicon (optics by HAKKO of Japan) and is a VERY high quality, and expensive scope.

comparing either of the 2 models you quoted to a real ACOG is like comparing a Yugo to a Cadillac.

the optical clarity of an ACOG is pretty unsurpassed...as is the toughness.

now, that being said.... frankly, i wouldn't get either of the scopes seen there for any serious work... plinking and playing around, sure, but if i was looking for something quality and long lasting, no way.... i'm pretty sure a very light hit like your gun falling over, would seriously damage or degrade those optics (having owned junk like that in the past, i know)

also, a 4x and a 3-9x variable have different roles overall, as do red dot type unmagnified.

A low power fixed, or unmagnified scope is best for CQB and shorter range targets. the TA01NSN 4x ACOG I have has ranging marks to 500 meters, your ability to pick out detail is dependent on range, target, lighting, and your eyes. I can definitely pick out light detail at that range. Read small signs at that range, no, make out human figures, and facial details.. yes.

cheapo scopes like the acog fakes, and low quality glass from china usually have a fisheye effect around the edges, poor parallax, poor focusing,breakable wire reticles, and generally poor quality light gathering ability, along with fairly shoddy overal construction that make them poor choices unless you are VERY strapped for cash and just need SOMETHING.

the 3-9x is best for medium or longer range precision work, like a SDM (squad designated marksman) would use...and also, on very cheap scopes, the POI may shift (as may the parallax) when the magnification is changed.

Also, having a variable may screw you up if you have to take a snap type shot... have it set at 9x on a 100yd target, may be hard to find quick...whereas a shot at 400yds may be impossible to get with the thing set at 3x.

the higher power you have, the smaller the FOV you have too, so keep it reasonable.

also, anything with a battery needs to be turned on to be able to use it, so it better have an amazing battery life. theres a reason Aimpoint is pretty much king of the Red Dot style targeting sights... none of the cheapo copies stay on that long... i have some cheap BSA rd dots and such on beater guns, and keep a stash of CR2032 button batteries in the range bag, they constantly go dead quick.

Also, picking the right reticle for what work you are doing is important.
For a unmagnified Red dot, i prefer the smallest possible dot available to me, as precision is important... but NOT as important at shorter range on a CQB type target (human center mass)

A 4moa dot means the dot covers a 4 inch circle at 100yds... thus 8" at 200, 12" at 300.. and on.. it increases in a dot coverage 4" every 100 meters.

So, getting a smaller dot means more precision, both on sighting in, and at longer ranges to increase the hit probability.

for a long distance type magnified scope, i prefer a mildot first, and a duplex reticle second. mil dots, if people actually learn to use the system, is a great rangefinding type scope.

a duplex reticle has thick cross hairs on the outside, and finer in the center for more precise aiming

so, you have to decide what role you want your particular optic to fill, and choose accordingly.. one doesn't do all jobs perfectly.

also, what I learned a long time ago, when i didn;t have much cash, or knowledge... buy quality once, not crap a couple times... it costs about the same either way monetarily, but you have 3 times less hassle and dissatisfaction from doing it right the first time.


if you have to, save up and get some better glass.

JMO, but i been there man

oh, let me also add that some of the lower cost sporting scopes made by Bushnell, Millett, and such are pretty good (if japanese glass), if not all tactical looking for an AR... dont pass over a good optic because it looks like it belongs on a deer rifle!

[Rustedwho]

Jay, wow.... thats quite a bit of information packed in there. Really appreciate the time to post that even though i'll be breaking it down into pieces to try and understand better. I probably wont get the chance to use the gun a ton but still wanted something OKAY on top. Cash strapped for sure, no job anymore in 3 days plus my 2nd daughter on the way. Overall, guess I need to keep looking. If you have any solid recommendations maybe you could post a link on it. This is gonna be my first AR and honestly cheaper is better. Thinking about a DPMS just because its under 800. I figure later on if I wanted to, I could get a better upper and go from there and buy another cheap lower and actually have two. Maybe its some odd rationalization but it works in my head lol. Anyway thanks you much for responding back and i'll keep that in mind as I start looking again.


- Andy

[JayBell]

actually... if its yer first AR-15, learn how to use the iron sights first before going to optics, you should be able to hit at 500+yds with factory Iron sights... and aside from that, what happens if/when your optic is damaged and fails?

you better be able to use iron sights.

As for cheap optics... check user reviews, doesn't mean its great, just means people havent had them fall apart on them

if yer not going to use it that much... get the 4x one you mentioned... seems to have good reviews, but i've never used one like that, but the other folks seem to like it.

[Qtrborecrazy]

Check out Burris they have a whole line of NICE THINGS. Just got my 2009 flier from them NICE STUFF, and yes I own Burris scopes which are very clear and the price was right.

Qtrborecrazy