Is this a good series of responses and would it prevent unlawful siezure of my gun?

[evilfij]

I ask this question because in another thread someone said that they were told to surrender their weapon or it would be taken by force and they just turned it over (I probably would have said, I do not consent and just stood there, but that discussion is for another day).

So, here it goes:

Cop pulls you over. You give drivers license, insurance card, registration.

Officers asks you if you have any weapons.

Answer: [without saying anything you hand over LTCF]

Cop reasks question if you have any weapons.

Answer: [silence]

At this point, would the officer have any basis to search the passenger compartment of the car or to pat you down or worse yet, take your weapon and run the serial number?

I would think no, but I am not sure what, if any, case law is out there on this point. I know it has been referenced here, but I did not find an answer on point.

In short:

1. Once the officer is aware you are legally permitted to have a weapon, what legal basis is there for a search for a weapon?

2. Assuming there is some basis to search, what are the parameters for seizing the weapon.

[stonewall56]

I don't know what Pennsylvania law says but Washington state law requires you to tell an LEO that you have a weapon "if asked". If Pennsylvania law is similar and you showed him your LTC but remained mute it is reasonable for the LEO to assume that you are packing. As to whether it is legal for him/her to do a search I'll leave to the lawyers.

[GunLawyer001]

If the encounter were being watched by a panel of judges and ACLU lawyers, your silence means nothing, it doesn't provide him any more probable cause or reasonable articulable suspicion than he had before he started pumping you for info.

In the real world, what happens on the street is subject to being "revised and extended", as they say in Congress, by the time the report is written. Your calm demeanor may retroactively become "nervous behavior", and there's always the old reliable "furtive movements" to base suspicion upon. Maybe you smell like cannabis or alcohol, at least in his mind. Maybe you consented to a search without moving your lips or making a sound. Who knows. But in the real world, some cops will use their uniforms to get back at every High School bully who ever pushed them around, and your failure to respect his au-thor-it-tay will simply escalate the encounter and bring in more creative retelling later.

There's nothing wrong with clearly and calmly repeating that you do NOT consent to being searched, that you do NOT consent to him handling your weapon. Start by stating that you have nothing illegal in your vehicle or on your person, but that you are asserting your 4th Amendment rights against unwarranted searches.

Good cops (and there are plenty of them) are not going to seize your weapon while they write out your ticket, so these defensive measures are only for the bad cops. There's no more reason to seize the gun of an LTCF holder than there is to seize his Bible or cell phone, or to grab his Republican Party mail and flip through it.