1911 extractors

[tdyoung58]

Going to buy a new 1911 soon, not sure which way to go. I've heard external work better than the internal ones and visa versa.

[Lycanthrope]

That depends. Kimber had some horrible issues with external extractors and went back to internal. A well tuned internal extractor will serve you perfectly with a little know-how......

And....there is a third option. If you have an internal extractor and want it replaced you can use an Aftec extractor wich is internal, but spring loaded. Kinda pricey, but I think they're worth it.

Lycanrunstheaftecthrope

[JDePietro]

Thank you for starting another 1911 flame war.

Be advised you will receive many, many answers from people of all walks of life with many, many varried opinions concerning this topic.

This is my opinion...

The US M1911 was created to replace the aging and combersome revolvers. It came down to the Savage and the Colt, Colt won. The pistol was originally issued with a internal extractor, a high ejection port, a GI bushing, and a standard grip safety among other things. The pistol was issued to many, many US troops, there were complaints. The pistol was reworked with some changes. Lowered and flared ejection port, bigger trigger and grooves, taller sights, ect. This still did not stop the US Army from attempting to replace the M1911 with the M1 Carbine.

JMB in the meantime when on to create many other firearms one of which was the Browning High Power. The BHP created after the 1911 uses an external extractor.

When the GI's came home so did many of their pistols and pistols from the enemy. These pistols along with new market pistols were distributed among the civilians. The civilians loved the pistol except many of the problems could be traced back to that internal extractor. Once tuned and fitted by a gunsmith the pistol out ran everything else in the pack.

This takes us to present day. There are many companies making a version of the 1911 and the most popular high end 1911 have all kinds of upgrades generated not from the Military market, but from the private market. These upgrades include beavertail safeties, actual sights (like novaks), rails, bob-tails, skeletonized everything, checkering, FGLR's, and all sorts of goodies proven to work well in competition and on the street.

That is all history and it plays less into this story than one would think. Really it boils down to petty bickering and brand loyalty.

Colt has made some huge pieces of junk, but they are Colt so most people let them get away with it. They over charge on everything they sell just because they can and people will buy it. If it were not for the US Defense contracts they have, I really doubt (and I am not alone in this) that they would even still be producing firearms to this day.

Kimber made a reputation on selling the 45ACP. They convinced the LAPD that a .45 was better than a 9mm . So they sold them a bunch of 1911's chambered for that and did it well. Because the LAPD bought them the civilian market thought they should too. However some people don't like Kimber, they think Kimber is a gimmick, that the pistols are not that great. Some people have gotten a bad Kimber. Kimber is not Colt they do not have a name to allow for error. Kimber = Junk, Colt = Gold.

Kimber attempted to make a 1911 with the external extractor and failed. Some people hate Kimber so that means that external extracors (ee) are bad. S&W made a 1911 with an EE and failed but then got it right as did Kimber later on.

So most of the argument is based on Colt= Best, Kimber = Crap and that is why people fight over the topic.

PB, Glock, Sig, Browning, Bersa, Taurus, S&W, KAHR, Kel-Tec, Ruger, and many others all use an EE with the majority of their semi-auto pistols this is done for reliability.

1911 "Purist" will claim that any upgrade is ok but not an EE. They will not admit that without Novaks or a comparable useful sight the pistol is hard to aim, they will not admit that beaver tails correct hammer bite, they will not admit that skeletonized trigger and hammers are an upgrade, or that flared and lowered ejection ports keep the hot empties from tapping you in the face.

Personally I think that anyone who calls themselves a 1911 "purist" should have exactly what JMB sold the Army the first time around. I love my EE equipped, railed, Novak sighted, Scandium framed, FGLR'ed modern update of the classic 1911.

I'm not Larry Potterfield, but that is probably the way it is.

(prepare for the flame war)

[marinakorp]

Depends.

JDP Brings up a few good points.

There are few EE's that do work well from several manufacturers.

From a Kimber Perspective (and I Own several Kimbers) they were having problems with several EE (yes, several did work correctly) and when returned to the factory...replaced the slides with an IE.

I prefer the IE. Not hard to tune...really mothing more than bending a piece of metal in or out...to add or remove tension (yes...just a little bit goes a long way!).. there are some fairly inexpensive tools to measure the amount of tension applied to the bar of metal...or you can pay a smith a few bucks to do it...for My $$... having to pay for it 2X from a smith...might as well buy the tool...nothing more than a trigger pull gague and a piece of metal to fit under the extractor to check the amount of tension...

My TLE II (IE) has been flawless since day one...30K rounds or so on it...regular spring changes, and cleaning the extractor channel...flawless.

Some others have had their EE work flawless from Kimber (and other manufacturers). I'm not so willing to take that chance in a 1911. it is EASY enough.

My UC II used to clock me in the head...untill I took a little tension out of the extractor...now spits in a pile to the right and a little behind...right wherer it should be.

[synergy]

Plain and simple, no pro's want EE's.

S&W uses one...it seems to work well for them. I wouldn't fret having a S&W with one on it, but I wouldn't buy it because it has it either. Personally, I wouldn't buy a S&W for hard use, anyway.

The internal extractor works just fine when properly maintained (just like the rest of the gun).

It's much easier to replace and tune an IE than an EE.

Kimber screwed the pooch on the EE, and that soured a lot of people on the concept. But they've dropped the ball on their quality in general, too. West coast IE Kimbers were pretty good....east coast and EE Kimbers, not so much.

Sig uses an EE, too....not really sure why, but they do.

BUT, NON of the industry leaders in the 1911 market use it, nor see a reason to. All of the pro's who spec out a 1911 for hard use, also select models with an IE.

In short....the industry sees no reason to switch over, and until they do, you'll be at a disadvantage using a pistol with propriatary parts.

[tdyoung58]

In short....the industry sees no reason to switch over, and until they do, you'll be at a disadvantage using a pistol with propriatary parts.

I think that's the best reason to get a IE that I've heard yet. Guess I'm getting the Springfield Loaded I've been looking at for a while.