Road Rage Incident.

[jcabin]

Well I was traveling home from work yesterday afternoon. Some guy wouldnt let me merge and was sneering at me and waving his hand as he purposely blocked me from getting in the lane, having a nice laugh. I had no choice but to speed around him to get in the lane as the prick was about to push me off the road and into a cliff wall. So I do as I said, and he flips me off and starts raging and screaming as I saw him through my mirror. I flipped him off but probably shouldnt have(but I thought it was a due gesture because he took joy in almost causing my car to collide with other vehicles).


So he follows me for about 6 miles honking his horn and flipping me off, pointing to the side of the road so I would pull over. I just ignore it, whatever I think to myself, soon he'll be off my ass and home to beat his wife. I decided to figure out if he was really following me, so I started making unecessary turns, the circle technique, to make sure he was on my ass. I planned on calling 911 and letting them know this guy was following me in my vehicle after he road raged and I purposly circled this road and he continued following me. Unfortunately, we hit a red light. He pulled up along side me and started raging, calling me a tough guy. Asking me if I know what it means to be tough. He was driving around in his big white SUV with new york plates (suprise) and kept reaching down below his seat, which to me means he had a weapon.

I think I got this part right, as I knew I was stuck in traffic at a red light, cars in front and behind me, and had no place to escape to, I had swept my jacket aside and gripped by sidearm. As a pre-emptive movement, incase he just pulled up and started shooting. So he starts raging more and more, I really had nothing to say, and he got more enraged. "what you dont got anything to say now mother fucker? you fucking tough guy can flip me off but you got nothin to say to my face mother fucker?", "all you needed is some patience, and we could have avoided this whole thing you fuck". He pulled even closer and was banging on my window through his vehicle.
Finally I responded with "what whole thing, are you trying to teach me a lesson ? do us both a favor and roll up your window and drive the fuck away". At this point he became raged beyond control and stepped out of his vehicle in the middle of the road and it appeared as if he had something in his hand, partly stuffed up his jacket sleeve, but luckily the light turned green and I smiled and pulled away. He was left standing in the middle of the street, screaming angrily, looking like a jack ass and everyone was just staring at him, it was obvious to onlookers that it was a road rage incident.

My question is, if he did come to my window with a pipe and started smashing it in, or pulled a gun out and started shooting at me, would I have been justified in defending myself with lethal force, even though I'm in a vehicle? Remember, I was bumper to bumper with cars in front and behind, and nowhere to run except into a field, on foot. In which case if he was armed I would have been an even easier target. I could see some bastard DA arguing, since I was in a vehicle I could have driven away, but given the facts I was cornered plain and simple till the other vehicles ahead of me pulled away.


EDIT: just to be clear, when I swept my jacket aside and gripped by firearm it was done before he arrived as the side of my vehicle. I did so as I realized he was about to pull along side of me. However, the gun at no point was in his view. I did not reveal to him my firearm, I simply readied myself incase it had to be drawn/fired.

[shefearsnothing]

IANAL....if you're sandwiched in between vehicles and you have nowhere to go.... one thing I'd be thinking was "hope to god I hit him and not someone else in their car" because then your ass is in more trouble regardless. (not saying you're a bad shot or that I am...just saying shit happens...even with the best of the best.) I am glad the light changed and that you're left asking the question rather then sitting down with a lawyer having to hash it all out. The guy sounds like a real nut.

[1861]

I would have .

[str8shooter]

IANAL.

Lethal force is justified if used to stop serious bodily injury or death (amongst other things), in this case, your own. A DA might argue you could have simply opened your door and slam it into the assailant, or exited from the passenger side, but if you are in legitimate fear for your life, and you have several witnesses to verify he initiated the attack, I doubt you'd have any problems with a self defense plea if you actually had to fire.

obviously you have a LTCF or you wouldn't have asked

/IANAL

[tes151]

If he would have come to your window and started beating on it with a pipe, or had a gun in his hand, you draw, point at center of mass, and BANG. Then leave and call the cops. Seeing where the area is that you live, I would have to say you were just entertained by one of those NYC goombahs. Funny aren't they? Why do so many of them think they are wise guys? Watch too much TV I guess.....

[mikey]

If he did have a gun in his car, I believe he would have been doing so illegally since Pa. does not honor a NY liscence to carry, which I doubt he would have had anyway. I would have called the police on the guy and had it checked out.

I'm glad you got away from this asshat and I believe you would have been justified if he had pointed a gun at you. Get their licence plate number next time, just in case they do something and run.

[bdevil73]

If he did have a gun in his car, I believe he would have been doing so illegally since Pa. does not honor a NY liscence to carry, which I doubt he would have had anyway. I would have called the police on the guy and had it checked out.

I'm glad you got away from this asshat and I believe you would have been justified if he had pointed a gun at you. Get their licence plate number next time, just in case they do something and run.

It doesn't need to be a license that PA honors. I think as long as you have a valid license from any state, you are legal to carry in a vehicle.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license


(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided: (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109. (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

[625]

Never box yourself in at any traffic light. Always give yourself at least a car length of room.

Also, as one who has been involved in a few "incidents" when I was younger, yes, it is assault if someone attempts to open your door or starts attacking your vehicle in any way. I'm not a lawyer, but a real lawyer told me this. And yes, you would be justified in defending yourself. However, if some dickhead got out of his car and walked up to your closed window and knocked on it and asked you to step out of the vehicle so he could kick your ass, it would probably be a bad idea to "blow him away". Just use common sense, or better yet, avoid any situation like this as if it were the plague.

Those of us that carry guns have to put up with extra BS in my opinion. Just having a gun can make things worse than they normally would be. If that asshole from NY called the police and said he thought he saw you point a gun at him, even though you didn't, things could have gone very bad for you.

P.S. I never escalated any incident beyond hand gestures and words. Well, except the one when I was 19. I got out of my car to call the guys' bluff that was following my car. He got out of his and we met halfway. He took a swing at me (and missed), and we ended up duking it out on the sidewalk. He did no damage to me, but since the fight ended up on the ground, the sidewalk scratched me up pretty good since I was only wearing shorts. We both got tired and simply left. An odd ending to a completely avoidable altercation. I still look back at that incident and laugh how lucky and foolish I was.

[Dredly]

It doesn't need to be a license that PA honors. I think as long as you have a valid license from any state, you are legal to carry in a vehicle.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license


(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided: (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109. (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

I don't think that would cover him as New York definately DOES NOT provide the same privilege to us.

[mikey]

It doesn't need to be a license that PA honors. I think as long as you have a valid license from any state, you are legal to carry in a vehicle.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license


(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109. (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

What about when he got out of the car with it? I don't see how this makes any sense.

Hangunlaw.us shows Pa not honoring a NY carry permit. So car carry is OK but not out of the car? These laws never seem to make sense.